"Carry me back to old Virginia,There's where the cotton and the corn and taters grow,There's where the birds warble sweet in the springtime,There's where this old darkey's heart am long'd to go,There's where I labored so hard for old massa,Day after day in the field of yellow corn,No place on earth do I love more sincerely Than old Virginia, the state where I was born."
Oh yes, those beautiful lyrics from James Bland. They remind us of a time in A-merry-ca that many conservatives no doubt yearn for. I know that the Governor of ole Virginia, James F. McDonnell, is yearning for them. Oh to have those darkies laboring for massa again. Hey, if we can't have all those days back at least we can have a month. Right Gov?
"Gov. Robert F. McDonnell, reviving a controversy that had been dormant for eight years, has declared that April will be Confederate History Month in Virginia, a move that angered civil rights leaders Tuesday but that political observers said would strengthen his position with his conservative base."
That's a shame. I always kind of liked Virginia. (At least the northern part of it.) It's a shame that they picked a man like McDonnell to lead the state. Be careful what you wish for. Now Virginia can join South Carolina and Texas as states that are pretty much an embarrassment to the rest of us here in A-merry-ca.
"McDonnell said Tuesday that the move was designed to promote tourism in the state, which next year will mark the 150th anniversary of the start of the war. McDonnell said he did not include a reference to slavery because "there were any number of aspects to that conflict between the states. Obviously, it involved slavery. It involved other issues. But I focused on the ones I thought were most significant for Virginia."
I hear you there gov. why quibble over a little insignificant thing like slavery? Unbelievable! And these black conservatives out here wonder why they represent such a small percentage of black folks. It's because of shit like this. No matter how much in sync we are with each other from a political standpoint, we can never ever embrace the ignorant people you choose as your political soul-mates. "Confederate History Month". You people in Virginia must have lost your f*&^%g minds.
"The proclamation was condemned by the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus and the NAACP. Former governor L. Douglas Wilder called it "mind-boggling to say the least" that McDonnell did not reference slavery or Virginia's struggle with civil rights in his proclamation. Though a Democrat, Wilder has been supportive of McDonnell and boosted his election efforts when he declined to endorse the Republican's opponent, R. Creigh Deeds.
'Confederate history is full of many things that unfortunately are not put forth in a proclamation of this kind nor are they things that anyone wants to celebrate," he said. "It's one thing to sound a cause of rallying a base. But it's quite another to distort history."'
'Confederate history is full of many things that unfortunately are not put forth in a proclamation of this kind nor are they things that anyone wants to celebrate," he said. "It's one thing to sound a cause of rallying a base. But it's quite another to distort history."'
Wait, did it say that Wilder has been supportive of McDonnell? Let me read that again....yep that's what it said. Sorry Gov. Wilder, I don't want to hear shit from you. You supported the guy. What did you expect? That his conservative ass was going to change his stripes for you? All he needed you for was to get a few other handkerchief heads (such as the former wife of a certain cable coon network) to support him so that he could get elected. So spare us the outrage, now. It's too late. You labored hard to get old massa in power and this is the thanks that he gives you and the other people of color in Virginia.
What was it Bob Johnson's ex said again?:
“We need bold and innovative leadership to move our state forward, and that's why I've chosen to support Bob McDonnell for governor,” said Johnson, a Democrat, during remarks in Richmond, Va. “He has shown me that he has the right vision and the executive leadership skills that will guide Virginia through these challenging times.”
Will Sheila, he does have a vision. The problem is it's not the right one for the people of your state, and it's certainly not right for A-mery-ca.
284 comments:
1 – 200 of 284 Newer› Newest»That should read: Heritage of Hate
Word verification: uppinsob
lol
Pres. Obama supported Biden after his clean comment, I don't see this any different from former Gov. Wilder's perspective.
Why am I not surprised about old Virginie. I keep trying to tell y'all that they are trying to sneak Jim Crow back in slowly but surely. You don't have to take my word for it. All you need to do is pay close attention to their words and actions. Segregating school again is on the rise. One city's mayor is using her police force to send a message "no black allowed" by harrassing them and arresting them on BS. The message coming from the teaparty folks, emasculation of black males and women, segregation of schools, and much much more. Oh well, I might as well stop telling folks what they're up to because no one is paying what I said any attention.
Like folks got out and campaigned for the President, they need to get up and do the same for the Democrats that are trying to help bring change because if the GOP party ever gets control again, we'll be singing "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" and "Steal Away"
Here is the link to that mayor story I was referring to:
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/08F7C532AC567F43862576F20013EAA9?OpenDocument
If we need anymore proof that BET is for "The Destruction of Black People!!", here it is.
This heffer actually supports this race baiter? Knowing the Johnsons, there's some money involved somewhere. McDonnell gets elected, look for Robert Johnson to be looking for some sweetheart deal from the state. Is ol' Bob trying to move the Redskins to Arlington? Is he looking to get into the private prison industry and further destroy Black and Latino lives that he's already poisoned through BET?
As to the specifics of these goons, only in America can a bunch of idiots can celebrate an open act of treason and call for an armed insurrection without getting arrested.
And we're one of the few Western states that would allow a provincial governor to openly support said idiots without s/he being tarred and feathered, if not arrested along with them.
MMM, there's a major difference between an old white guy stating what we already know (Obama is the Jackie Robinson of Politics) and a sitting governor making a holiday that is blatant racism.
I see where they've arrested another man for threatening Nancy Pelosi. This is the second arrest involving someone threatening a government official. I think the last arrest was one in Washington state just the other day.
These people are full of hate, and they are not playing with their threats. I don't care how Ms. White Power Barbie from Wasilla, the militia queen tries to play it down as that's not what she meant. These folks are serious and need to be kept under close surveillance, including Ron Paul.
MMM, you must be the dumbest bitch alive. It's because of coons like you the reason cocksuckers like mcdonnell can do shit like this and get away with it with absilutely no repercussions. People like you are nothing more than a sellout and a slave catcher. I despise you almost more than them because you should know better. NO MATTER WHAT, AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU'RE STILL BLACK.
It's like you are oblivious to these so obvious facts. Do you really think white people like you because you share the same ideology? They only use you for 1 thing, and that's to further their agenda, whatever it may be at the time. Trust me,they can't stand you. You are delusional. I almost feel sorry for you.
For the record, I do not believe you are a scientist, your way of thinking is too irrational, as well as ghetto.
Segregating school again is on the rise.
Why exactly would you want black kids going to school with white kids?
"Why am I not surprised about old Virginie. I keep trying to tell y'all that they are trying to sneak Jim Crow back in slowly but surely.."
LOL@ Granny. Yeah but granny we can sit at the same lunch counters now. Please tell me we are not going back to the days of the "colored entrance" in the theaters? :)
"That should read: Heritage of Hate"
Yep.
Baby...I am right there with you.
Despite the complete omission of slavery, I do not have a problem with Confederate History Month, because it quells the some of the white folks who complain every February about not having a White History Month.
Not_RJ said...
"Despite the complete omission of slavery, I do not have a problem with Confederate History Month, because it quells the some of the white folks who complain every February about not having a White History Month."
I don't give a fuck what those goobers complain about. It's racist to the core, and discounts the horrendous legacy my and almost every African american's ancestors had the displeasure of experiencing back then.
Nice comment sellout.
lets see... Virginia was founded by English escaping religious persecu... no that was New England.
They were convicts shipped off to... sorry Australia. Search for El Dorado?... oh , yeah thats Florida.
What was Virginia again?
Riiiight, the Virginia Company figured out that a a bunch of farms growing stuff you can't eat, worked by people you dont have to pay, was a way to make a boat loed of cash. All they needed was some land to grow stuff on = VIRGINIA!!!
Fast forward to an election where som etall guy who isnt so cool with your whole state's existance being based on slavery and you try to back out of the whole U.S.A. deal.
Tell me one thing, ONE thing the confederacy was about that was not in some very direct way connected to slavery.
(crickets)
Re HNOD,
Barber's wife probably is lucky. You know the number one cause of death for pregnant women is murder. Narcissistic dudes that can't stand to have a child taking the attention away from them.
Shabazz, you are an idiot. You are no better than stupid teabaggers-- NARROW MINDED.
YOU ARE A SORRY INDIVIDUAL.
Not_RJ said...
Shabazz, you are an idiot. You are no better than stupid teabaggers-- NARROW MINDED.
YOU ARE A SORRY INDIVIDUAL.
No asshole.
I'M AWAKE.
Unfortunately, other states have similar proclamations:
Alabama
Mississippi
Texas
Louisiana
Florida
Georgia
I really don't have words....
Shabazz, sorry Negroes like you are not foreign to me. Let me support my statement with the following.
You see, it's sorry Negroes like you who attack people as sellout if they do not think like you on every issue (i.e., have an independent thought).
Every blue moon, when sorry ass Negroe, like you, calls me a sellout, I put you in the same category as sorry ass whites who call black Americans, Niggers.
I laugh at sorry as Negroes who abandon the surname of their "former white slave masters" for the surname of Arab slave masters.
You are not only a sorry individual. You are a confused individual.
*snickers*
"No asshole.
I'M AWAKE."
^5, Baby.
We have to understand our enemy. And make no mistake, people who glorify the confederacy are our enemies.
I never said that folks who glorify the confederacy are not enemys of black Americans. I said I do not have a problem with Confederate History Month.
How does that affect me?
Field:
The counter thingee might be in the making the way things are going. They'll might pull that in one of those Southern states first or one of those little out the way towns. LOL!
I told y'all once that those folks were going to go stark raving mad if the health care bill passed. Did I lie?
Anonymous:
Why shouldn't blacks be given the same education that they give whites? That separate but equal was a faux and only made sure that the word separate but equal meant inferior quality education.
.
I am with Shabazz 9:44. How can a black person feel mollified by a bunch of evil maniacal racist and their sick need to celebrate the "jim Crow" legacy, and/or equate it to the importance of black people celebrating and taking pride in "Black History" month?
And Granny, as they say, give em an inch....
Because I do not give them power/authority to offend me or rile me up.
Only weak-minded people get all riled up over this shit.
News Flash: RACISM EXISTS!!! Get busy living!
Amen Laaudio!
BTW, anonymous, when I was going to school, the books were so outdated until the first couple of pages had the names of students who had the book before me. Some of those folks were senior citizens by the time I got the book.
I think having a state sponsored or endorsed Confederate History month affects everyone on a couple of levels, especially since the Virginia declaration failed to mention the Peculiar Institution.
First, and most obvious, it legitimizes the notion that there was something "noble" about the Confederacy. This panders to the neo-confederates and the teabaggers, who are constantly talking about taking "their country back". Now you know which country they want back, the Confederacy States of America.
This is not an isolated event.
From the SPLC:
"The neo-Confederate movement’s best known legal champion is getting some media buzz for urging Southerners to declare their race as “Confederate Southern American” on the 2010 U.S. census questionnaire."
Counting ‘Confederates’: Once More, Kirk Lyons Tilts at Census Windmills
News Flash: Racism affects all minorities, and mainly black people. Yeah, your suppose to keep on living, but while you're living, it would be very wise to keep your eyes open so that nothing slips up on you.
"There's where I labored so hard for old massa,Day after day in the field of yellow corn"
You hven't worked a day in your fucking life Field, you ambulance chasing fool.
Yes, celebrating confederacy is very offensive, because innocent black people were killed, seperated, and sold off from their families, and worked from sun up to sundown for free labor so that whites could profit and get rich behind those confederate beliefs.
Not_RJ,
When they come for you, will their be anybody to speak for you?
It only affects you if you let it affect you.
There are more pressing issues than this. Um, like high unemployment, high forclosure rate, etc.
Pardon me if I do not believe this is a significant issue affecting black folks.
I am more concerned that we fill out the damn census form.
GrannyDroolingFromtheMouth:
"Why shouldn't blacks be given the same education that they give whites? That separate but equal was a faux and only made sure that the word separate but equal meant inferior quality education."
White kids get educated by white teachers. Black kids get educated in dysfunctional schools run by black criminals.
Hathor said...
Not_RJ,
When they come for you, will their be anybody to speak for you?
Let them come. I am one of he few liberal/Democrats who believe in the Second Amendment.
GrannyStandingforTruth said...
News Flash: Racism affects all minorities, and mainly black people. Yeah, your suppose to keep on living, but while you're living, it would be very wise to keep your eyes open so that nothing slips up on you.
Do not set up a slippery slope. My ambivalence to Confederate History Month in no way conveys or explicitly states that I "eyes are not open to racism."
Why do some of us assume that those with one or two views that differ from are in some way oblivious to racism or do not see it everyday?
I'm not going call anyone a sellout, but Not_RJ, how can you equivocate celebrating Black history or MLK Day to a Confederacy month that's celebrating keeping Black folks in bondage? You don't see Jews celebrating Hilter's birthday.
And also, you have to get 'riled up' because the last time I checked -- when poor white people get ticked off with something (Black people, immigrants, abortion doctors, gays, people who can read at a HS graduate level) they tend to get armed and start going native in the woods.
Other communities (the Jewish community and more so, the LGBT community) do not stand for this
type of crap. Try hanging a confederate flag or a Nazi symbol long North Fairfax Ave here in LA. You'll have about 2 dozen Hassidic Jews chasing down Melrose Avenue, clubs in hand. But Black folks want to live and let live? Negro please.
The fact that you say "They don't control my life" misses the point -- you have a sitting state executor who is attempting to legally implement a month commemorate segregation, slavery and sedition against the state.
Think about it, he's openly declaring that an act of treason against the country is a good thing. You know, treason against the state, that crime that will get you life in prison or shot dead in every country on the planet?
And be clear, assuming you are a person of the Diaspora, the Confederacy was formed because rich white rednecks didn't want to treat your black behind as little more than cattle. A talking work mule. Producing a cash crop with virtually no labor costs is hard to give up.
You don't see that as a problem. This isn't some has been comedian spouting "Go Back to Africa" BS because he's tanking on stage. Or a shock jock making fun of college girls.
This is an elected head of state, coolly suggesting that we celebrate a blatant act of racism and oppression. In a state that is over 15% minority, no less. Wow, man, just wow.
RJ, and we're concerned about those issues too and they are important to us as well. However, right now we got some crazy ass racist white folks that are looking to turn back the hands of time to good ole days of Dixie and cotton. These folks are not playing games, they are serious as sickle-cell anemia. I kid you not. They've been threatening government officials with death and they are doing more than that.
I never equivocated Confederate History Month with Black History Month.
What I said was that I do not have a problem with it, because it will shut up those whites who complain every February. That's all I said. Infer what you will from it.
rottnkid He might want to visit Mcnairs gr.ave. Might give him some insight.
posted Apr 7, 2010 at 18:27:21 Reply Link
Realbrother Real Brother here.
So true. But yet if any of these White Supremacists or Black Self-haters were to see McNair and the White Supremacist who killed him in public they would swear that they are in love and that "love" brought them together.
In reality McNair had no intention of leaving his beautiful Black wife for her which is probably why she shot him. She probably realized he didn't hate himself and Race and worship Whites as Superior and she couldn't stand that.
She should have got with Tiki.
---------------------------
Help.
Why shouldn't blacks be given the same education that they give whites? That separate but equal was a faux and only made sure that the word separate but equal meant inferior quality education.
They should. Blacks need to set up their own schools. The Nation of Islam does it. Too many whites just don't want blacks in their schools. The answer is for blacks to have their own. All black charter schools?
GrannyStandingforTruth said...
RJ, and we're concerned about those issues too and they are important to us as well. However, right now we got some crazy ass racist white folks that are looking to turn back the hands of time to good ole days of Dixie and cotton. These folks are not playing games, they are serious as sickle-cell anemia. I kid you not. They've been threatening government officials with death and they are doing more than that.
I am very aware of the undercurrent in this country. The Hutaree (and such groups that are latent or under the radar) is more of a concern to me than Confederate History Month.
Yep, I can see it now, Palin and McDonnell in 2012.
Unless another Republican governor steps up and declares that there was actually never slavery in the United States. then that person will get the nomination and Palin moves down the ticket to VP again.
Will all due respect, Not_RJ, but allowing this madness to go on will not shut these folks up about February. If anything, it will make their political gonads grow a little larger and they'll go for ever worse policy. This governor is already overturning a decade-old policy at VA public university that ensure same sex partners can go on their spouses' benefits. Dollars to doughnuts these redneck governor and his croonies in VA (which is basically the DC suburbs now)will try something even crazier next time.
Anonymous 10:28:
Instead of posting your ignorant mess, you should be down on your knees thanking Jesus that you are sitting behind a computer screen spouting out your false bravery. Because I guarantee you I could snatch your heart out and hand it to you before you blink your eye. I kid you not.
BTW, it is sad that your granny has those drooling and Depend problem because I guarantee you that this granny does not have any of those. However, you have let me know that you have no respect for your own granny other than to make mockery of her, and that you have an inward hatred towards her aging instead of compassion, but you got to get old one day too. You are really a pathetic piece of work.
""Why shouldn't blacks be given the same education that they give whites? That separate but equal was a faux and only made sure that the word separate but equal meant inferior quality education."
White kids get educated by white teachers. Black kids get educated in dysfunctional schools run by black criminals."
Niiiiccccceeee.
'Let them come. I am one of he few liberal/Democrats who believe in the Second Amendment."
They see it that way too, and they not only do they bring guns and a pick up, they bring along their noose and gasoline.
To celebrate the confederacy is to celebrate and glorify Slavery and Jim Crow, it's a start for heading towards a backward slope. Do you know what this means? And to let this slide you don't think it will impact and encourage more "serious problems", unemployment, foreclosure, terrorism and even possible death for more black people of color? The confederacy legacy should never be tolerated much less celebrated, especially with state funds. All it takes is an inch.
Would the Nazis have a month too?
RJ:
I understand what your saying, but what I am trying to get you to see is that ALL of it is tied up in it together. That's all I am trying to get you to see. I am not thinking negative of you or anything like that nor do I think that you are a sellout because we disagree.
A sellout to me is someone like fake Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson. I do not see you as nowhere near him in his beliefs. :)
"They see it that way too, and they not only do they bring guns and a pick up, they bring along their noose and gasoline."
Not only that they get full of their alcohol first and that's when it starts getting out of hand and someone gets hurt.
LACoincidental said...
s. Dollars to doughnuts these redneck governor and his croonies in VA (which is basically the DC suburbs now)will try something even crazier next time.
10:42 PM
-----------------------------------
It's all about old money down here. Governor Wilder was a dickhead because he could be. He had something on every single politician in the city of Richmond. Why'd you think he had so many body guards??!!..lol. Alls I Know whe that asshole was elected we just jumped into a time machine. lol..You can also carry sidearms into Chuck E. Cheese if you want to and you know Chuck sells beer..lol...2 UP, 2 Down, VA.
Alls I Know whe that asshole was elected we just jumped into a time machine.----------------
referring to McDonnell
'Not only that they get full of their alcohol first and that's when it starts getting out of hand and someone gets hurt."
Exactly. I can see and hear them now, and they will celebrate with extra vigor too, you betcha.
Also, shouldn't it be against the law to celebrate treason? The Confederate states committed treason so a Confederate History Month celebrates treason, right?
LaAudio:
I started to tell you the story of one of my kinfolks that 15 white men went to his house and called themselve going to kill him, but it didn't turn out like they thought it was gonna turn out. All of them got the worse end of it. However, my relative lived to be an old man.
Val:
Not only that, I thought it was treason in a time of war to incite violence against the President and government. Oh yeah, and usurp the President like Cantor did.
Field and others, I can certainly understand the visceral response of outrage. But in this particular instance I think it would be better to temper that outrage with some intellect. The governor can say all he wants that they are just going to celebrate whatever it is that he considers the laudable parts of the Confederacy to be. But if he wants to have Confederate history month, Black folks throughout Virginia should be staging slaver reenactments, 24/7 for the entire month. and the more graphically violents and barbaric they can be made, the better. They should be filiming this and constantly posting to the internet. Let the white folks in VA have their day, and make them eat the bitter dregs of their hypocrisy. It won't change a single mind in VA, but it will serve to control the meme that these prehistoric conservative are trying to create. To continue to react like crybabies and victims with no power to effect the outcome of the situation, is getting old and played out.
What up brother Field! I almost feel sorry for ole not RJ he took such a licking by yall I think he is RJ now(lol)
Its amazing that some folks continue to try to pretend that there is something good about the Confederacy and its heritage of slavery.
The irony is that most of the ancestors of the poor suckers that continue to embrace this so-called Confederate heritage were not embraced by the actual movers, but were actually looked down upon.
And lets look at this so-called heritage of these poor southern folks, they were the cannon fodder for a war that was in no way going to benefit them. Suckers!!
This is just a fantasy by these poor white folks who are forced now to compete on an equal footing with black folks and are longing for the days when they were the preferred servants.
In actuality they are celebrating their families history as "dupes." (lol)
They are too unsophisticated to know that they actually ought to hide this fact and definitely not celebrate it.
NOT_R J, it's BLACK FOLK like YOU, that have opened the Door wider for RACISM! what is WRONG with you GONE CRAZY NEGRO'S?
I am a Christian, and I am suppose to LOVE my Neighbor as myself, well, guess what? these White neighbor's of our's, want a RACE WAR! let me make it more plain! These HEATHEN'S want to bring Bodily Harm to BLACK FOLK!!!!!!! NOT R J, so you keep sitting back Pretending to be Dumb! ain't no way in the world, a Black person is suppose to be walking around pretending as if, those Gun's these white folk are STOCK PILING, is not for us!!!!!!!!!!
These White Heathen's are Prepared, when they call out the President, they are CALLING OUT BLACK FOLK as a whole! these people have a HISTORY of SHEDDING BLOOD in this country! in other word's, THESE people will say they are DEVOUT CHRISTIAN'S, but, yet, LYNCH you at the same time!!!!!!!!! and trust me, These people DO NOT represent God!!! these people are Barbaric! every single day, These God know's WHAT'S! come up with something new! and yes, they are GOD know's what's! to be honest, I don't know what type of so called HUMAN BEING'S, these people are!!!!!
SHABAZZ YOU better keep on staying AWAKE!!!! cause some black folk have to Stay Alert, while the rest of our people are walking around like a (BUNCH of DISORIENTED 2010 SHAKY BLACK PERSON) these are the black people, that will take the side of the white man if God forbid, something would ever happen to our people! are we not seeing their REACTION to RACISM? they have decided to down play the WHITE MAN'S HATRED of our people!!!
ISEEISEE
@ Granny & Field:
I am going to share something with you that I think you both can appreciate (and I can take a break from getting my tax paperwork together ;)
In the early part of 2001 (February) I was asked to prepare Black History Month festivities at a university I worked for in the very deep south. Backstory...this university (college at the time) had NEVER EVER had any type of black history acknowledgement BEFORE I WAS ASKED...(leadership can be tough :)
Anywho...while we were in the midst of celebrations (which the black, white and chinese students loved)...several students came to m class stating that "they" were having a "reenactment on the footbll practice filed". (My first time ever hearing of such an event).
So I strolled down to the field to see what was going on and more importantly WHO was putting it on.
As it turns out, it was the history dept...and there they were...complete with uniforms, rebel flags, and shotguns...all white students...
I knew it needed addressing and that it should come from the students. I hurriedly typed a petition and asked a few students to sit in the student center and get as many signatures as possible in just 3 hours (all the time I had)...
The amount of signatures collected was volumous! I was pretty shocked. Every student that signed their name also signed their frat or soro and if they were international they made that known on the petition...it was amazing...
I gathered the papers and took them to the head honcho in admin. It seems that no one knew these people (in the history dept.) were propogating hate filled reenactments and did not have permission to do so. I also made it known that February was the worst time to choose to celebrate slavery...just not a good look for the school.
The outcome...an apology to ALL the students in the school newspaper by the Dean & Chair of the history dept. with a promise to seek and hire a black professor to teach african american history (which they did in the following year).
The moral of the story...white folks STILL have to be trained...
And...sometimes you have to fight black folks to help them :)
Peace.
~agape2010~
Exodus mentality you make a significant point, but I don't think raising the problem with the proclamation constitutes, crying or playing the victim.
I think you could give us nourishment, without making us eat crow as well.
In fact, if folks who responded were playing the victim, they would not have responded at all. Folks who play the victim usually curl up in corners in a ball and let folks walk all over them.
That my brother is a more accurate display of "playing the victim."
And crying is not the same as demanding or insisting that this thing be rejected, which is what I understand happened in VA after the governor issued his sneaky proclamation. The governor apologized and added a substantial nod to slavery in his rewritten proclamation,which he would not have done had pressure not been brought to bear.
But I get your point. I think that the better demand should have been to include a day in which Virginia school children be required to learn about the reality of the Confederacy and just what was included in the slavocracy. They should have requested state funds to make presentations at libraries and other public places on that day.
It would have been good to use it as a chance to teach young people and adults why slavery is nothing to play with and why evil can't be celebrated, nor disguised as heritage.
And BTW what you proposed as a way to strike back is not as airtight as you think.
Your solution presupposes that the folks who cheer on this sought of not so thinly disguised nod to the anti-big governemnt folks, would actually care. In fact some would probably volunteer to play the part of mean and barbarous "ole massa."
Hey Field! it's been a while but when i saw this story i just knew there'd be some interesting comments. it's funny how "convenient" history can be used to perpetuate certain ideas. but usually when you commit a treasonous crime you pay for those crimes. this is yet another indication of how Reconstruction failed because the South or i should say its ruling class whom were mostly responsible for orchestrating the organization of secession, weren't really made to pay for their treasonous acts. particularly because of Post-Civil War President Andrew Johnson's lenient administration and the Compromise of 1877 allowing the South to carry on business-as-usual.
and McConnell's kind of slightly treasonous activity & many other "southern principles" have been allowed to infect our government throughout the decades: McCarthy-ism, segregation, and so many other "delightful" ideas.
it's one thing if this Idiot-Gov decides to UNOFFICIALLY celebrate his Confederate history; but to OFFICIALLY designate as a statewide policy is in my opinion: treasonous. it'd be similar to Haiti designating June as Francois Duvalier or more commonly known as Papa Doc month--- the man who committed the ultimate (& common) treasonous act by using the country's finances as his personal bank account & then fled w/ the money.
however, i think it's time to have comprehensive discussion about the Civil War; clear the air; start naming-names, & start treating the South's actions for what they were: treason.
Agape great story! I see you are a serious sister, with real life experience fighting the evils of this system. Bravo!
Granny said:
"Yeah, your suppose to keep on living, but while you're living, it would be very wise to keep your eyes open so that nothing slips up on you."
I feel you Granny I feel you on this one.
@ FN:
For a racism chaser you sure get shocked alot....lol
I'm shocked that you're shocked...:)
Why am I not shocked...???
1. It's VIRGINIA!
2. As long as there are ignorant people there is $$$ to be made off them (Bob Johnson was a self serving overseer that made is fortune of the backs of blacks and sold it all to Viacom)
3. Shelia Johnson after divorcing Bob Johnson ran to Tyson's Corner to sell haute couture clothing for...whom...???
4. Virginia has ALWAYS been a place where blacks need to watch their neck, back and throat. (when I go home, if I drive, I NEVER stop for gas in Virginia)
5. Virginia is a state mostly filled owith poor whites looking for something to make them feel... more human and less ignorant...so they what comes naturally...try anything and everything to feel superior to blacks.
Peace.
~agape2010~
@LACoincidental: "The fact that you say "They don't control my life" misses the point -- you have a sitting state executor who is attempting to legally implement a month commemorate segregation, slavery and sedition against the state."
All excellent points. You don't leave me with much to say.
You know the irony of all of this: Blacks are the primary ones expressing outrage.
White southerners weren't the only ones who suffered during this nation's civil war: The North suffered as well.
Where are all those Northern whites whose ancestors fought and died in this unfortunate war?
Are they O.K. with this?
Although the North won the war, I don't see them gloating over their victory with the establishment of a Union War Hero Month.
I don't think the South, or southerners, would take too kindly to such an official holiday.
This commemoration of the Confederacy not only insults blacks, but Northern whites, as well.
And the last I check, everyday is a day that celebrates White History.
agape, damn Tyson's Corner? I haven't been in that overpriced, enclosed Rodeo Drive clone since I was at a student government conference in High School. Wow.
Anyway, you hit the nail on the head. Its Virginia and with the exception of a few college towns and DC suburban enclaves, Virginia is pretty backwards, especially the western part of the state. And the Johnsons have long shown that they care little for out people.
@GrannyStandingforTruth
True. And they should lock up everyone at Fake News to get the ball rolling on that.
@Agape:
By any chance is Tyson Corner named after the Tyson family? I'm not to familiar with places in Virginia.
dem fools down in Dixie
dumb as dumb can be
can't get over losing
we'll rise again you see
just a bunch of traitors
treasonous cracker scum
yet "Dixieland" has rhythm
it makes you want to hum
Oh way down south in Dixie
dems crackers kinda of slow
don't know too much of history
confederacy's all they know
so let us make it official
make every month down there
a celebration of ignorance
and stupidity fair and square
it is a fraternity of losers
who hide behind their sheets
they revel in their glory
while ignoring their defeats
it would really be hilarious
if the truth was not so cold
this perpetual racial hatred
is just tiresome and so old
@ Mell:
Thanks! In all reality I simply carry on the duties of what I have been taught. I am fortunate enough to have parents that played their part in the forefront (and were villified for having their children take a stand publicly)...so I get it honestly...and I do feel a real sense of "obligation" to not only my parents...but for those that did/do not have/had the advantages I have/had.
And make no mistake when I say...Train your white folks...I do not mean it in a demeaning way...
It simply means that there are some white people whose consciousness can be raised if only they are made aware. I think this blog serves a real purpose for that...
And...
When I first went to the south I could not understand the mentality of some black people...a wise preacher once told me..."Sometimes you have to fight black folks to help them". That is the case with Wilder and Johnson...albeit Johnson certainly has reason to have monetary motives...:)
I am just happy to know that YOU are continuing in what is known as "The Struggle" for human rights. For that I applaud you loudly :)
Peace.
~agape2010~
@Val:
I definitely agree with you. In fact, I don't know why they're taking so long to do it, because more and more people think they should do just that.
frog got talent!
Agape, that was a good story. I liked it.
finefroghair said...
it would really be hilarious
if the truth was not so cold
this perpetual racial hatred
is just tiresome and so old
As usual finefroghair, you're poetically on point.
Word verification: "point."
@ LA at 10:32 pm:
The whole thing...but then this...
"You don't see Jews celebrating Hilter's birthday."
oops! There it is!
And...
Ah jus wanna thank you fah lettin me b mah self agin...(in a Sly & THE FAMILY Stone kinda way :)
Made my night :)
Peace.
~agape2010~
"A zebra can not change it stripes"
For years southern states tried to keep their racism on the "downlow" in order to draw corporations to the southern regions, and it worked. Now the lid has come off of the pot. They cannot contain themselves any longer because as they will tell you "They want the country back" and what they will not tell you in public "from you people of color"
@ Granny:
The one and the same...of all the places she could have opened a dress shop...she chose Tyson's Corner...at that time it was the whitest of white places to shop...very high end. The only black out there before her was Juanita (Leonard) and I know why she did it...to break new ground for black businesses there.
Now...it's just a shopping place like any other... (For the record my mom NEVER shopped there...she always went downtown...that's when we had a downtown lol)
Peace.
~agape2010~
"A zebra can not change it stripes"
For years southern states tried to keep their racism on the "downlow" in order to draw corporations to the southern regions, and it worked. Now the lid has come off of the pot. They cannot contain themselves any longer because as they will tell you "They want the country back" and what they will not tell you in public "from you people of color"
@ Frog:
just wow!
Peace.
~agape2010~
Agape:
I thought that those were the Tysons that it was named after. Those are some of my white kinfolks that don't want anyone to know they have darkies in the family. They come from old money. The dirt I could tell you on them.
finefroghair,
That was one fine feckin' poem.
Doug Wilder, the former governor, should get the benefit of the doubt.
Just because WaPo characterizes his non endorsement of Deeds as support for O'Donnell doesn't make it so. The press has been sloppy on inferences like that before. If there is some tangible support there, the article didn't cite it.
Amen to all else in this post. The Confederate nostalgia fans talk a lot about honor (which is the ostensible rationale behind the feudal fantasy thing).
So then any remembrance of the Confederacy should be primarily an ongoing truth and reconciliation commission on the multiple crimes of slavery, and their effect on us all today. That would be the honorable thing to do.
@ Granny:
So I guess there's no chance of you getting any of that plantaion land...:) They sure have alot of it...
Peace.
~agape2010~
@ soyinkafan:
"So then any remembrance of the Confederacy should be primarily an ongoing truth and reconciliation commission on the multiple crimes of slavery, and their effect on us all today. That would be the honorable thing to do."
Well said! Now if we can get THAT ONE POINT across to EVERYONE we wouldbe in a much better place and space in this country. Thank you :)
Peace.
~agape2010~
Agape:
Yes, they do have a lot of land. A lot of the white Tysons migrated to Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Arkansas, and North Carolina back during slavery and spreaded out. They had a lot of land and plantations in all of those states too and were large slaveowners.
We do have some of the land in Louisiana.
Agape:
Yes, they do have a lot of land. A lot of the white Tysons migrated to Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Arkansas, and North Carolina back during slavery and spreaded out. They had a lot of land and plantations in all of those states too and were large slaveowners.
Our family does have some of the land in Louisiana.
One of my white cousins made a statement that the Tysons didn't whip their slaves. I laughed to myself. Nah, I guess not if they were too busy trying to sleep with them.
@ Granny:
ROTFLMAO!!"...too busy sleeping with them."
Yeah, those Tysons have taken land all over the south.
word verification: ladiesse (ladies see )
Peace.
~agape2010~
Agape, you don't know half of the story it gets deeper than that. They were not only prominent wealthy whites folks in the family tree. But I am not gone to tell it. At least not just yet, until we finish the book. That's when it might hit the fan so to speak.
Agape appreciate the nod we'll both keep fightin.
Fine Froghair you out did yourself this time.
Hey Granny I have read that the worst slave masters or the ones most apt to use the whip were the Christian slave masters.
Go figure!
mellaneous:
They called one of them "Bible Tyson" hint..hint...hint!
@ Granny:
I love to see the univeral laws unfold...and for people to get their "comeupance"...
What goes up must come down...
Now let me ask you this...IF and that's a big IF...I wanted to set up a profile how do I do that?
And...
I cannot wait for my dad's book to come out. It's going to be funny, serious, and highly enlightening as to how Washington really works.
Peace.
~agape2010~
Get you a blogger account.
Yeah Guv, let's remember Phil Sheridan laying waste to beautiful Shenandoah Valley. Not that there were so many slaves in the Valley,but because they sent all the food to Gen. Lee's army & used the Valley to invade the north. & let's remember the bread riots in Richmond - the women rioted - because only Jeff Davis & his traitor government had bellies full. & let's remember the fleeing rebel army burning their own capitol when Grant finally broke through. & let's remember West Virginia, that part of the state didn't even want to secede & die for the rich plantation folks down the hill. Lots to remember.
I don't think I'm all that ready. It's better for me like this. People can read me as much as they want and will still hear me singing the same song :)
Well...I'm off. Long day tomorrow...tax day for me.
Till tomorrow...if the Lord is willing and the creek don't rise :)
Peace.
~agape2010~
You know what strikes me as odd, or has anyone noticed how in the picture the men are giving that Hitler salute? I'm trying to remember if the KKK gave that salute too. If I remember correctly, they did not.
Well, let me say this and I am going to bed.
The reason why Fox We Make It Up News, Palin, Bachmann, Steve King, the teaparty folks, and all of the rest their followers and commentators are dangerous is because the world is watching America too. They are making us look vulnerable to our enemies. This could give them the notion that they could come over and attack. It is not just their incitement of race wars and usurping the government that is a problem, it how they are making America look vulnerable and weak. When your enemies think that you are weak, that is when they attack. Think about it!
That is why they need to be locking their behinds up and clamping down hard on their mess, because the mess that they are stirring up could really get out of control and a lot of innocence people get hurt, and it would be too late. They are some dangerous folks and that is all I have to say about it, but don't say I didn't tell folks this if anything does happen.
and look what is happening in our law enforcement and militry..
http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/oath-keepers
Black grl #1 wrote
this is yet another indication of how Reconstruction failed because the South or i should say its ruling class whom were mostly responsible for orchestrating the organization of secession, weren't really made to pay for their treasonous acts. particularly because of Post-Civil War President Andrew Johnson's lenient administration and the Compromise of 1877 allowing the South to carry on business-as-usual.
This is a really good point. If more of the secessionist political leaders, generals and slaveowners had swung at the end of a rope for treason we might not see these activities today. In Post WW2 Germany, no one was a Nazi and no one had supported Hitler... LOL...
"There's where I labored so hard for old massa,Day after day in the field of yellow corn"
You hven't worked a day in your fucking life Field, you ambulance chasing fool."
What, you think it's easy "chasing ambulances"?
"Also, shouldn't it be against the law to celebrate treason? The Confederate states committed treason so a Confederate History Month celebrates treason, right?"
Yes Val, they were/are terrorist plain and simple. We might as well have an al-Qaeda month in New York.
In fact, I might do my next post on that.
Let's not beat up Not_RJ, I respect his/her opinion. I think Not_RJ means well, just a different way of looking at things. I disagree, but I don't see his/her behavior as house. In many ways I agree with that mindset: Don't pay attention to foolks in the majority and what they are doing,just do you and keep getting up- But when it enters the political arena at such a high level we can't just stand by and say nothing. As LaCoincidental said, other communities don't stand for this type of s*&* and rightfully so, we shouldn't either.
Agape, thanks for the anecdote. But tell me something I don't already know.
finefroghair, as I have said so many times before, you have some skills. :)
"Unfortunately, other states have similar proclamations:
Alabama
Mississippi
Texas
Louisiana
Florida
Georgia
I really don't have words...."
Yep, Virginia is in great company.
Shabazz said...
MMM, you must be the dumbest bitch alive. It's because of coons like you the reason cocksuckers like mcdonnell can do shit like this and get away with it with absilutely no repercussions. People like you are nothing more than a sellout and a slave catcher. I despise you almost more than them because you should know better. NO MATTER WHAT, AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU'RE STILL BLACK.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Listen shitbazz, I'm obviously not dumber that your bitch ass Mammy who should have swallowed your ass.
I don't give a fuck if you don't
agree with my opinion, I have it, its different from yours, so kiss my fuckin ass!!!!
Your obviously some twenty something silly bitch pretending to be enlightened about race relations, when in reality, you don't know jack shit. EVERYONE knows better to know who's racist than have to guess.
Now MR, let's see you come in and defend this ho' who clearly verbally attacked me first!
They are coming out of the wood work... baby they want their country bac. We ain't seen nothing yet!
Once more comment to Shitbazz. I'm sure YOU and the other jealous bitches on this blog who believe I'm lying about being a Scientist, know that YOU are the biggest frauds and enemies to black achievement in America.
Who needs whites doubting the fact that Blacks ARE in fact quite capable of handling academic curriculums in Medicine, Science, and Engineering, when Black folks have jack ass, coon nigger's like you all?
Besides, just because all you were smart enough to major in was English, don't hate on someone FAR smarter than you! STUPID!!!!
Virginia voted for the President(Peace be upon Him)
Not_RJ said...
I never equivocated Confederate History Month with Black History Month.
What I said was that I do not have a problem with it, because it will shut up those whites who complain every February. That's all I said. Infer what you will from it.
10:35 PM
did you really mean "equivocated?"
anyway, no, this is NOT ok with whites or blacks who understand what confederate month means. last i checked the former gov. kaine is white and expressed outrage.
i have to say tho that people did elect this joker and all those complaining now should have worked harder during the campaign and prevented this guy from taking office.
the state went for obama with a lot of hard work by folks like me--i canvassed there and made phone calls.
also seems to me we can care about the "christian" militia and this kind of shit, and this is MORE DANGEROUS for obvious reasons! a racist action by a duly elected governor, vs. some crackpots?
also, please note that this jackass did evoke black history month RIGHT in the middle of his declaration. it was a completely gratuitous reference except he explained that it is tit-for-tat:
"The proclamation issued by this Office designating April as Confederate History Month contained a major omission. The failure to include any reference to slavery was a mistake, and for that I apologize to any fellow Virginian who has been offended or disappointed. The abomination of slavery divided our nation, deprived people of their God-given inalienable rights, and led to the Civil War. Slavery was an evil, vicious and inhumane practice which degraded human beings to property, and it has left a stain on the soul of this state and nation. In 2007, the Virginia General Assembly approved a formal statement of "profound regret" for the Commonwealth's history of slavery, which was the right thing to do.
When I signed the Proclamation designating February as Black History Month, and as I look out my window at the Virginia Civil Rights Memorial, I am reminded that, even 150 years later, Virginia's past is inextricably part of our present. The Confederate History Month proclamation issued was solely intended to promote the study of our history, encourage tourism in our state in advance of the 150th Anniversary of the beginning of the Civil War, and recognize Virginia's unique role in the story of America. The Virginia General Assembly unanimously approved the establishment of a Sesquicentennial American Civil War Commission to prepare for and commemorate the 150th Anniversary of the War, in order to promote history and create recognition programs and activities.
FN:
I always kind of liked Virginia. (At least the northern part of it.) It's a shame that they picked a man like McDonnell to lead the state. Be careful what you wish for. Now Virginia can join South Carolina and Texas as states that are pretty much an embarrassment to the rest of us here in A-merry-ca.
-------------------------------
NOVA (Northern Virginia), won't succeed with the rest of VA - I promise you that. Hell THEY want to succeed from VA themselves!
I wonder if Sheila Johnson now regrets endorsing McDonnell.
Knowing a little about those negroes, probably not.
http://new-possibilities.blogspot.com/2010/04/confederate-history-month-it-is.html
Here's the thing: I moved to [southern] Virginia, and I like everything about it except the Virginians who live here.
80% of the white folks in my neighborhood are Rethugs. I had McCain Palin signs on both sides of my house last year.
I ain't goin' nowhere. More of us ex-New Yorkers come every year. And one day they'll know down here that the Civil War is over and they lost.
"Sorry Gov. Wilder, I don't want to hear shit from you. You supported the guy. What did you expect? That his conservative ass was going to change his stripes for you? All he needed you for was to get a few other handkerchief heads (such as the former wife of a certain cable coon network) to support him so that he could get elected. So spare us the outrage, now. It's too late. You labored hard to get old massa in power and this is the thanks that he gives you and the other people of color in Virginia."
Wildere has always played footsie with Virgina racists.
He wouldn't have gotten where he did if he didn't play ball with them.
People forget that in his 1989 campaign for VA Governor he practically blew ex-segregationist A. L. Philpott in public to get an endorsement.
FN:
Wait, did it say that Wilder has been supportive of McDonnell? Let me read that again....yep that's what it said. Sorry Gov. Wilder, I don't want to hear shit from you. You supported the guy. What did you expect? That his conservative ass was going to change his stripes for you?
----------------------------------
Wilder is a dickhead. That fucker thought that ever since being the First Black Governor that he could pull some dumb shit as the Mayor in Richmond. He was confrontational, sneaky and he plain just didn't give a fuck about anybody or anything, but his ego. $250K a year for body guards alone as Mayor - because he needed them. But I'll give him one thing - He literally pissed off (and on) the old money buisness heads because they thought he was going to be THEIR puppet once he got into office... LOL, that plan didn't work out too well for them.
Bendra said...
Here's the thing: I moved to [southern] Virginia, and I like everything about it except the Virginians who live here.
-------------------------------------
What part? I could never move to the southern part, to damn country for me. I'm in Richmond, VA.
fn:
it is racist...ditto
___
mamm:
ditto!!!
it is no more racist than what biden said about hobama
so that makes hobama a "coon" too per shabassedout...ditto to that too!...
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/unlike-obama-harry-reid-did-not-lie-1.html
mamm:
preach!!!
ditto to hypocrites and haters and selectively BOLDLY blind blog police...all!!!
"No matter how much in sync we are with each other from a political standpoint, we can never ever embrace the ignorant people you choose as your political soul-mates."
This is what I repeatedly tell people who are enamored with the tea bagger movement. If they're by and large out there spewing hateful, racist rants, then why would any sane person want to stand shoulder to shoulder with them and claim themselves as one of them?
As for the people who say the Civil War was not about slavery, I ask them the question: If the south had not practiced slavery, would they have even tried to secede? NO!
"Blogger MeandMyMicroscope said...
Once more comment to Shitbazz. I'm sure YOU and the other jealous bitches on this blog who believe I'm lying about being a Scientist, know that YOU are the biggest frauds and enemies to black achievement in America.
Who needs whites doubting the fact that Blacks ARE in fact quite capable of handling academic curriculums in Medicine, Science, and Engineering, when Black folks have jack ass, coon nigger's like you all?
Besides, just because all you were smart enough to major in was English, don't hate on someone FAR smarter than you! STUPID!!!!"MMM
There are lots of people who are intelligent on this blog MMM who can certainly fathom Blacks studying science and doing well. LAC is one of them, I am another and there are more such as Hathor. The way to get more of us to study the sciences is through outreach and making the sciences easier for regular folks to understand.
For a while, every time I saw a gal with braids I would tell her a bit about braid topology and that she carries ancient African knowledge in her hair style because braids are fundamental carriers of information. This makes the sciences more applicable to daily life.
You aren't bringing more of us into the fold with your conduct and by calling people stupid. That seems anathema to building people up don't you think?
mr:
no advice for others herein???
only mamm???
not shabassed out???
why?????????
As to the topic of this post...Whoa! I am very conflicted about Confederate History Month. I have met and kicked it with many white people from the South and they are obsessed with the 'majesty of the South' and their family history. I have met many who even do civil war reenactments. BTW they were doing the reenactments here up round Knights Ferry a few miles away from me a few years back.
It seems like it is a cultural thing among Southern whites to glorify those days. One gal I know told me that when MLK was assassinated back in the day, all the people in her family yelled that it was a good thing and she clapped because she thought he was a bad man.
History of the Confederacy is further complicated by the fact that quite a few Native American tribes fought for the Confederacy because they were promised land and there was a class of Black soldiers that fought for the Confederacy for the same reason.
If they celebrate this history, then they at least need to be honest and thorough about it.
Sadly though, I just don't think that is their intention.
Given the discussions yesterday I wonder if this holiday will in some way oppress Blacks or not.
It could be that it generates a lot of tourism for the state and that might be a good thing for a while...depending on how they use the money!
RE: the GOP (and by default, the teabagger movement)
"This is who they are--the proud and ignorant. If you believe that if we still had segregation we wouldn't "have had all these problems," this is the movement for you. If you believe that your president is a Muslim sleeper agent, this is the movement for you. If you honor a flag raised explicitly to destroy this country then this is the movement for you. If you flirt with secession, even now, then this movement is for you. If you are a "Real American" with no demonstrable interest in "Real America" then, by God, this movement of alchemists and creationists, of anti-science and hair tonic, is for you."
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/04/proud-of-being-ignorant/38569/
Alicia, Shabazz does not purport to be a Black scientist. In college I was an active member of NSBE and take this commitment seriously. Even if we don't have the same political ideology or whatever else, we ought to look out for one another. It makes very little sense to lament the lack of Black scientists in one breath then insult another Black person's intelligence in the next.
You know that I am right you are simply trying to be combative with me and there is no reason for that.
mr:
YOU ARE SO DISHONEST & TRANSPARENT!
i was not speaking about occupations
i was pointing out your perpetually selective blog policing
shabassed out typically moronically childishly vulgarly attacked mamm and u said nothing until she returned his slur...
and now you feign innocence and confusion as if it never happened
shame!!!!
Any explanations given to you Alicia, were simply due to courtesy.
You have only done what three posts and have already insulted me. You still can change your behavior you don't have to insult me.
If she really is a Black scientist in California, then we have more to talk about than not. And if she really cares about the plight of Black children who need to study science and technology more, then you would not interfere with potential dialog.
Unless you can think of something constructive to add, you ought not say anything.
What did Wilder expect? Conservatives are like snakes. They smile to your face and bite you when your back is turned.
Maybe he should've watched an hour of Rachel Maddow's show before saying this guy was alright.
The Conservative base are the Nazis of the 21st century. Give them power and they'll be firing up the ovens in no time.
MR said:
"Given the discussions yesterday I wonder if this holiday will in some way oppress Blacks or not."
No MR it won't oppress black folks it would be oppressive because it seeks to rewrite history and glory in something that should not be gloried in.
There are monuments to the gallant fighters on both sides of the conflict and that should serve to remind folks of their contributions and that should suffice. More importantly the tributes should be a reminder that slavery was a bad idea and humanity progresses even better when one group is not subjugated by another.
There is nothing useful to be gained by celebrating the Confederacy. The only good that can come out of it is to show the history of struggle of black folks in this country.
Oddly, in discussions around the internet there are too often folks who talk about slavery as if it was some walk in the park and as if its effects don't have an impact on black well being even to this day, especially with the equating of the color black with slavery and later second class status.
It is a big deal, because it is a not so subtle effort to revise and whitewash history. and in doing so it would not so subtly imply that it was okay to make slaves of black folks I mean it was our heritage after all.
A better way to get a feel for how insidious this is, would be to imagine the response by Jewish folks in Germany if there was an attempt to celebrate the "heritage" of the Nazi past.
You know what would happen.
The point that folks are trying to make is that ideas do indeed count. History serves a purpose, primarily a didactic one. Speaking of, history teaches also that if you keep your mouth shut when folks are stepping on your toes, eventually they will cart your behind off, because your silence has communicated assent.
Granny, to answer your question from the previous post. Yes My Grandpa is J Alfred Smith Sr, but he recently retired from Allen Temple Baptist Church. Now, my Uncle J Alfred Smith Jr is the Pastor.
I think the church is great because they do so very much in the community; AIDS programmes, housing for the elderly, accredited academy that gives GEDs and some college credit...They practice liberation theology in the flesh:)
Notice that AB's first comment here consists of two parts:
1) A dick suck to fn
2) The usual rant about "hobama".
There goes the neighborhood, once again. You're a turd that just won't flush, Skanks.
Thanks Mellaneous for explaining that in deeper detail. I was so conflicted about it but it just doesn't 'feel' right to me. I used to blog with someone that had the moniker 'heritage not hate' as his moniker. He was a'ight and everything but every now and then I he'd make a racial comment and after all was said and done turns out he was visiting my blog for other reasons...
It does seem disturbing that we have a Black President and all of this backlash centered around 'taking back the country' as if it was theirs to take to begin with!
However, if they want to set up a Confederate museum, that history is important for us to know about because if we are unaware of how people think then when we come across them again we wont recognize that evil...I say they can set up a museum and they can tell the truth about the confederacy.
"What did Wilder expect? Conservatives are like snakes. They smile to your face and bite you when your back is turned."
Wilder is just as slimy as they are.
He's stabbed fellow Democrats like Chuck Robb and Don Beyer in the back and has passively endorsed rightwing VA Republicans.
I, like many African-Americans, were extremely proud of his election as VA Governor bu we quickly saw that Wilder was about Wilder and no one else.
Confederate flags and any Confederate celebrations are nothing but symbolic middle fingers pointed at African-Americans.
"Confederate flags and any Confederate celebrations are nothing but symbolic middle fingers pointed at African-Americans."UTSteve
We can turn the nasty molded lemons into lemonade in this case. Let the state of Virginia charter a museum or event about the Confederacy. All the proceeds from tourism would go to school districts of the most under served populations...now who might that benefit?
What's the chance of that happening?
The 'necks would go ballistic.
Well UTSteve, if the funding for the museum comes from PUBLIC funds, they have no choice.
I know Virginia has a lot of poor whites, but it also has Blacks that are marginalized in certain areas. Therefore any monies generated by the 'project' could rightly go to the citizens of the state.
Since the Governor himself declared this holiday and there aren't enough Blacks to challenge this holiday, I say use it to help the people of the state.
That is one positive way this can be spun...
Is a confederate the same as a nazi?
Is a confederate the same as a traitor?
Is this a celebration for treason supporters?
Thrasher, I don't think those who celebrate think of themselves as seditionists at all. The ones I've met are proud of their family history of honor and all that stuff. I am inclined to let people live and celebrate whatever holiday's they deem fit. However, the underlying spirit of McDonnells declaration bothers me...
"I know Virginia has a lot of poor whites, but it also has Blacks that are marginalized in certain areas."
And when's the last time you've seen poor whites and blacks bound together politically?
That's the genius of the Southern Strategy.
Poor and working class whites vote against their own interests because they are manipulated by wedge issues which have no bearing on their quality of life.
Anyone who has visited the southern and eastern parts of America knows that Civil War history in general, and Confederate history in particular, are not forgotten or neglected subjects. There are monuments, exhibits, museums, etc. etc. commemorating all participants in the conflict, civilian and military.
Untold books, films and documentaries have been written, produced and sold that examine the conflict from every perspective, including the Confederate viewpoint. The "Nobel Rebel" was, and is, a favorite Hollywood stock character. Even the most history challenged American schoolchild has heard of General Robert E. Lee, if not the leader of the Army of Northern Virginia then the car in the Dukes of Hazard.
Ok, that was a bit snarky, but my point remains, Confederate history is not an unknown or forgotten subject in this country, the South in particular. And my question remains, why was this declaration necessary?
MR now that museum idea with the proceeds going to poor schools sounds like an excellent idea. In a forward thinking society we would do something like that.
Field others did you see this yesterday in the NY Times.
THIS IS DANGEROUS!
U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric
"The Obama administration has taken the extraordinary step of authorizing the targeted killing of an American citizen, the radical Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who is believed to have shifted from encouraging attacks on the United States to directly participating in them, intelligence and counterterrorism officials said Tuesday.
Mr. Awlaki, who was born in New Mexico and spent years in the United States as an imam, is in hiding in Yemen. He has been the focus of intense scrutiny since he was linked to Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the Army psychiatrist accused of killing 13 people at Fort Hood, Tex., in November, and then to Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian man charged with trying to blow up a Detroit-bound airliner on Dec. 25.
American counterterrorism officials say Mr. Awlaki is an operative of Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, the affiliate of the terror network in Yemen and Saudi Arabia. They say they believe that he has become a recruiter for the terrorist network, feeding prospects into plots aimed at the United States and at Americans abroad, the officials said.
It is extremely rare, if not unprecedented, for an American to be approved for targeted killing, officials said. A former senior legal official in the administration of George W. Bush said he did not know of any American who was approved for targeted killing under the former president."
Notice the continued use of the word "believe" and again he is "suspected'.
Think about this one folks. This is precedent setting even Bush did not authorize such a thing.Look at what Obama can do for US imperialism he can skirt the law and nobody will protest.
Notice if you will (browse the net and their blogs) the silence of the anti-big government folks also known as Tea Partiers.
So imagine how this could be used against those revolutionary minded folks who want to see a just society.
All you have to do is be 'suspected' or 'believed' to be labeled an "enemy of the state".
Divide and conquer is an effective strategy UTSteve all the way down to Bacon's Rebellion. However, if the funds are public then they have to be distributed to ALL the citizens or the citizens with the most need. It doesn't matter if the poor whites and Blacks don't stand together on that issue.
Gregory, yes you are right there are many places where Civil War history is shown in the South. I believe the Declaration was made as a symbolic gesture ala 10th Amendment feel...BUT living in California all my life UNTIL a few years ago made me realize that I didn't know very much about the Civil War at all and in OUR SCHOOLS, the Confederacy was not given a lot of time.
When I met people from all over the country at a national speech competition in 1994, I met people who were so into it that they did reenactments and all that stuff! They knew about all the battles and played with figurines as kids!
Like I said, I'd like for the Governor McDonnell to be a bit more honest about the Confederacy and mention the other players involved.
I also understand that the Confederates fought for more than just slavery, although they haven't articulated that very well. Here is a book about a Mulatto woman whose father was a white confederate general. He publicly acknowledged her and supported her success. This is why demonizing everything Confederate seems wrong in a way; there was far more complexity than we realize.
Mellaneous this is why it bothers me so much that people are stuck on our President. He is no different than many other presidents in terms of his policies and in this case, has gone further to nab the so called bad guys.
What an egregious spit in the face for our civil rights. But this happened under Bush's Patriot Act as well.
We don't really live in a democratic republic do we? Decisions are made all the time that we don't agree with nor would we EVER if these issues were put to a vote.
Something is terribly wrong in the middle east and I know they aren't all terrorists. The US is simply trying to increase its sphere of hegemony, which bothers me.
Blogger M. Rigmaiden said...
For a while, every time I saw a gal with braids I would tell her a bit about braid topology and that she carries ancient African knowledge in her hair style because braids are fundamental carriers of information. This makes the sciences more applicable to daily life.
Hey MR, have you read the article on ancient Inca braiding as a means of data communications in Wired magazine a few years ago? Pretty cool stuff on linguistics and information theory. Now, the question is what is the numerical set that they used for data communications (we primarily used based 10 in pre-information revolution and now base 2. I think the Inca system used based 3. But again, its very interesting way to explain to kids if not information science, at least basic material science and physics (how and why good braiding technique prevents a braid from randomly falling out).
But have to disagree with you to a degree. On the personal level, there may be many conflicts internally during the Civil War. But the Civil War, as a political engagement and conflict, was primarily about the issue of slavery and the political economy of the time.
Basically, most of the abolitionist were northerners connected to the industrial revolution. And economically (as well as politically) the South was protecting its interests as a primarily agricultural economy. Remember Slave states were primarily Agrarian states, so it garner more political capital for southern farming empires to allow the practice of slavery to expand.
So the greater issue, beyond treating our people as cattle, was who would determine the direction of our economy -- the form of agrarianism of the South (which bordered on feudalism with slavery and tenant workers) or Industrialism (which lead to 'wage slavery', the instability of capitalism and pollution, but also many other progressive ideas and developments that would not be possible under the political economy of an agrarian society).
mr:
i "insulted" you by noticing/exposing/denoting that you said NOTHING to shabassed out...and you still have NOT done so???...
add that vulgar assnon/aperpetualretardoi resident envier of fn to your LOOOOOONG list of belated sermons due...
____
fn:
have you noticed that i am not allowed to AGREE with you without getting vulgarly accused of sexual acts upon you?...sheesh!!!
why is that DL assnon/apervoi SO obsessed with your oral sex bro???...dyam!!!
can a hobama rebel ever even just AGREE in peace herein???
@mell, do you have the link that NY Times article? No offense, but I get a little leery when I read hyperventilating analysis on political issues from the Left and (especially) the Right.
I listen to Pacifica everyday -- those wacked out hippies hate Obama almost as much as the Tea Baggers (primarily because he's not channeling the Symbionese Liberation Army or Operation MOVE, thank God). I didn't hear anything about on Democracy Now or the nightly news. But I can be wrong.
LAC, no I actually didn't see the article in Wired Magazine. My references were from the Microsoft Research Group's research on braid statistics and quantum computing, along with numerous other papers, particularly in arxiv.org and pnas.org. There is an interesting one about braid statistics and anyonic particles in pnas.
As to disagreeing with me, I don't think we disagree at all. More or less I've tried to express my confusion on the issue due to its complexity...I know that slavery was a big part of the Confederacy but your comment casts a greater light on the societal frameworks that were at odds with one another. Thanks.
I still haven't been able to get a straight answer from the pro Confederates about what the war was about, if not slavery. Like I said above, I'm sure there are other reasons but they haven't articulated them well... ;)
Field, I enjoy reading your comments section as much as your posts. Your readers often make me turn my own ideas around and around like a rubiks cube as there are so many interesting and varying points of view. That and I'm a little in awe of your folks...
That said @RJ I have a lot of friends like you and to them I usually present this argument when something so blatantly racist happens and their answer is to "just stay focused on us don't listen to them." I feel where your coming from but consider this, we as a people have really fallen down on our job if McDonnell felt comfortable offering this up. What must the climate be in this country if an elected official in a country with a black head of state feels perfectly at ease suggesting this? I think there's a couple things we should consider 1) what's being taught in history classes that EVERYONE not just black folks weren't immediately appalled at the notion of CHM 2) how can we introduce legislation on a national or local level to help the unemployed or those whom are in trouble with their mortgages if society at large shrugs their shoulders at celebrating CHM.
LA mentioned that Jewish people don't allow for things like this to even be suggested and quite honestly I think a sort of Anti-defamation league for Black folks is long overdue. As long as people stick to your way of thinking things like this will continue to happen because we can't get on the same page and see that little things like this do affect our overall self-esteem as a people as well as our stature in society as a whole. How can you convince a Black child s/he can be anything if we can't quickly and efficiently tamp out this kind of mess?
You know I didn't see the article in Wired magazine but I've been studying ethnomathematics as a hobby on and off for a few years now. The Incas used a mixed system as their base, I believe. There is so much to learn about language formation, information theory and so forth. I did some intro stuff for kids and young adults on padic mathematics and you might notice that the underlying theme is how numbers can be represented in different bases may lead to a different cognitive set of processes where the very framework of thought is different than in our ten adic society;)
Here are links to my Mersenne fingers and toes calculator posts I did a few years back. They were among my favorites.
1.Fingers and Toes are Mersenne number generators
2.Fractional Finger Counting Games. This post was one of my favorites because it sought to represent any rational number on the fingers. I couldn't do irrationals that way;)
lac:
each time you post some mindless drivel like this about the last dying vestiges of indy media:
"I listen to Pacifica everyday -- those wacked out hippies hate Obama almost as much as the Tea Baggers (primarily because he's not channeling the Symbionese Liberation Army or Operation MOVE, thank God). I didn't hear anything about on Democracy Now or the nightly news. But I can be wrong"
it makes me IMMENSELY proudER to be ultra liberal!!!
authenitic journalism is DEAD because of hobama nazis like you who define news as "cherrleading for the god obama"
THIS IS WHY FOX NEWS IS AND WILL REMAIN #1:
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/link/6a0123ddb39306860b0123de0aa982860c.html
like fox's mogul media,
we brave honest liberals owe u!!!...thanks!!!
MR, no harm no foul. This is all about educating each other and discourse about ideas. Interesting, but that surprising about M$ getting into the quantum computing game. Gates and Co. realize that Moore's Law is the dirty little secret in computing -- kind of the techie equivalent of the internal combustion engine.
For those who didn't take (or in my case, terrible at) quantum physics and VLSI design -- Moore's Law has to do with the speed and efficiency of microprocessors will continue until we reach a physical limit imposed by electromagnetic impedence. Then, chips will either statically stay at one speed, drop off completely or simply burn out.
In laymen's terms, you can only make microchips so small before the tiny transistors and resistors on said chip start interfering with each other and fry the circuit.
Quantum computing is the attempt to use the spin of atoms (primarily carbon based structures or water) to store and calculate data. Right, experimental Quantum computers are really slow and only do limited calculations in theory. But once we 'get it' the possibility for data storage and transfer are relatively endless.
So, why not get ahead on the QC game and protect your financial interest as the big daddy of the software game? We saw how Microsoft rushed Windows Vista to market so it could support 64-bit processing (and failed miserably). So, I would expect no less from Redwood.
MS,
There is move to rehabilitate the Confederacy, which I think is part of this declaration. When you mentioned that Blacks had fought on the Confederate side with the expectation of earning land, the new Confederates would have it that they fought to preserve the heritage of the south.
As someone said, almost every southern city have monuments and their favorite battle sites and museums. As a child we would have field trips to those places. The white southerner has continually celebrated the Confederacy since the Civil War. There is no need to have Confederate History Month.
Virginia has Colonial Williamsburg which attracts more that just southerners. They make quite a bit of revenue from that and Six Flags.
lac:
why would ANY ethical & consistent media
say anything different about hobama when he is cloning gwb????
that makes the indy media more honest than YOU!!!
The situation in Haiti four months after the disaster is the topic of discussion on the PBS show Basic Black, which you can watch TONIGHT at 7:30 p.m EST LIVE at www.basicblack.org or on channel 2 in Boston. You can also participate in a live chat at basicblack.org starting at 7: 20 pm.
AB, I'll say this once -- you don't understand hyperbole and there's nothing to admire about crazy rich white kids on acid (lead by smooth talking, crazy Black guy on acid) deciding to murder cops, terrorize bankers and kidnap other rich white girls.
Oh, and by the way, Pacifica Radio sucks!!! It could be a real news network -- but engages in rather paranoid drivel that serves little more than preach to the converted.
For ever real news report they do -- Pacifica will engage in idiotic Lefty infighting (listen to WBAI sometime), rehashing old leftist speeches from 10 years ago that have no relevance today and selling people on the idea that drinking spring water and silver crystals cure cancer.
Its a million-dollar network ran to the ground by the worse examples of Latte Liberalism.
lac:
since i did not mention the BPP,
i can only see your retroactively irrelevant rant as a belated primal scream lingering from the dual fed reserve/swindleus ass kicking you endured yesterday...
i get that x 2
but
i have no idea why you and uts hate and diss the BPP so... especially when you kick out said hatred and disrespect like a cowardly shell shocked vietnam vet suffering from tourette's syndrome
BUT
until you own a better news netwk
do not dare slander one of the FEW that is doing anything but holding a perpetual pep rally/undeserved nobel peace prize after party for hobama!!!
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/an-honor-undeserved---obamas-prized-12-days.html
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/newspeak-in-norway-obama-declares-war-is-peace.html
lac:
oops...my bad
sorry!!!
i see you were only talking about hobama and the dems and lady liberty here....ditto then!!!...carry on...
"I'll say this once -- you don't understand hyperbole and there's nothing to admire about crazy rich white kids on acid (lead by smooth talking, crazy Black guy on acid) deciding to murder cops, terrorize bankers and kidnap other rich white girls."
"i have no idea why you and uts hate and diss the BPP"
Don't put words in my mouth AB.
I never said I hated the BPP.
Initially they were young idealists who were committed to the safety and uplift of the community.
However at a certain point they became coopted by thugs and murdered fellows Panther Alex Rackley and Fred Bennett as well as a white ally named Betty Van Patter.
In the 80s Newton became a crackhead and Seale and Cleaver associated with rightwing racists like Pat Buchanan and William Buckley.
They went out like suckas.
Extremists and hustlers.
So what's to admire?
LA Coincidental I feel you about being leery of demagougery and the doctrinaire.
Here is the link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html?hp
For the record LAC.
You can still learn from folks you may disagree with. When folks who talk about the "left" these days I suspect are talking about liberal Democrats. The term use to mean those who actually were opposed to class society and thus capitalism or at best were reformist. So technically I could be considered a leftist, but I am not it reality because I don't believe the system of capitalism can be reformed. So I don't play footsy with it, I think we need as MLK put it a restructuring of society.
If you noticed I don't fit those categories I am however serious about bringing about real peace and real justice and fighting for folks human and civil rights.
"When you mentioned that Blacks had fought on the Confederate side with the expectation of earning land, the new Confederates would have it that they fought to preserve the heritage of the south."Hathor
Thanks Hathor, I didn't realize that. You know in California, our eyes are not so open to these issues. And although i lived in Atlanta for about a year and a half many years ago, I did not ever go to a civil war memorial at all. I mostly partied and studied;) Nobody that I knew was remotely interested in going to a civil war history site so...When my Father came to visit, he went to various places but I don't think any of them celebrated the Confederacy.
As someone who is slightly older than me and someone whose had a very interesting set of life experiences, I'd really be curious to hear whether or not you think this celebration is inherently a racist one.
As to the comments about Pacifica radio made by LAC, whoa! I'd never heard of Pacifica radio. I don't listen to much radio and don't own a normal television so in some things I am out of touch, admittedly.
Life is a lot easier when you can stay home and read and sing at your leisure with a little guy and a dog with a husband at work;)
To be honest though, I have heard enough talk radio in younger days to last a life time. Out where I live, the only radio stations are two top forty stations, Rush Limbaugh central and Mariachi and Banda music. You can tell the demographics of my area eh?
Oh wait, I forgot the Indian radio. They have a station out here and there is one station that only works in our city limits and it is Black centered.
LAC said:
"listen to Pacifica everyday -- those wacked out hippies hate Obama almost as much as the Tea Baggers (primarily because he's not channeling the Symbionese Liberation Army or Operation MOVE, thank God)."
LAC you're stretching a bit here. I don't think progressive minded folks "hate" Obama they may hate the evil that appears to be embodied in capitalism. And of course those are not the same.
The SLA and MOVE were a bit wacko and its not a fair comparison.
I don't think you have to be a whacko:
to be opposed to US occupation in Iraq and Afghanistan,
or to be opposed to banks and other nefarious predators stealing working people's hard earned cash, or to be opposed to an overbloated defense budget,
or to believe that all children should be educated,
or that people who are sick in the most advanced society in the history of the world should be able to get health care no questions asked,
or be opposed to racism,sexism,and homophobia,
or think that human beings should be treated like human beings whether they come from Denmark or El Salvador!
uts:
only a supreme house nigger like u would define the total annihiliation of the BPP via COINTELPRO like this:
"They went out like suckas."
there is no sucka like you and those suckka clones of you who were fbi agents that infiltrated the BPP to cause the very same chaos that you & lac and apervoi do herein daily...
shame sucka!!! shame!!!!
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/video/6a0123ddb39306860b0123de02fc7f860c.html?locale=en_US
Brooklyn,
We have the NAACP and I find the silence of those in white jewish circles interesting given they are so quick to demand Black folks to refute any holocuast theme events but then again they were late to the Riwanda carnage as well..So much for "never again"...
mell:
do not even bother
"hating obama" = telling ANY truths that make him look like less than a flawless annointed god
hobama is a hologram/hoax/clone of gwb who is being GROSSLY coddled my MOST media and still hobama nazis like lac dare to whine because he is not being EVEN MORE GROSSLY coddled by ALL media...
shame!!!!
http://www.amazon.com/Slobbering-Love-Affair-Pathetic-Mainstream/dp/1596980907/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270752918&sr=1-1
lac:
cc ONE lie pacifica ever told on hobama!...or stfu
Mellaneous,
There were many "wanted" posters during the western expansion of the USA. You can correct me if I am wrong, but they said something like
WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE
JESSE JAMES ( US CITIZEN).
Obama has legal training and I am quite sure the order is written to include the word/s "capture" or "bring" to justice.
Stuck in NYC
Uptown I am not going to defend the foolish actions of the Panthers you mentioned. And I think what you pointed to was the fact that some of the Panthers were not real believers in what they preached.
I think also while you are being hard on these brothers that some of them succumbed to their weaknesses, some lost heart, some simply gave up and gave in.
IN other words they succumbed to ea
These were quite human responses to all the tremendous pressure they were under, especially from the US government which hated like sin the idea that some Negroes were teaching other Negroes that they could think for themselves and that the US was not the paradise that they had purported to be.
They indeed committed some outrageous blunders. They were sexist to the point of being mysogynistic. They were authoritarian, there were stories of the leadership beating members.
They were paranoid and sometimes confused.
And its also important to note that they were infiltrated by the FBI which actually sowed confusion and even got them to turn on one another and other groups.
The FBI sought to divide all the radical groups and they suceeded by writing fake letters and spreading lies and innuendo.
We can use the long lens of history to sit back and judge them and sum them up as losers etc.
But Steve they had some kind of intestinal fortitude. They challenged the most powerful nation in the world and confronted their most pernicious lie; racism.
They challenged the racism that was embodied in police brutality, and unfair justice system. They challenged the racism in the Bay Area that refused to place a stoplight at a corner where several children had been killed and was cleary a very dangerous intersection. It was the Panthers who didn't just complain about it but organized the community to get a traffic light on the corner.
Kids were going to school hungry in those days. The Panthers knew it they didn't blog about it or write about it they organized a Breakfast Program. It was so effective that the goverment began shutting down the feeding programs. There was one rumor that they even spoiled the food at one location.
They opposed the US intervention in Vietnam as well and preached that black folks shouldn't fight a war overseas when they couldn't get justice and equality here at home.
These stands took absolute guts. And for the record many of these folks were murdered and imprisoned by the government, the vast majority only guilty of standing up against the injustice of US imperialism.
And Lord knows no one in their right mind would call Fred Hampton a "sucka".
You get my point, the far removed ahistorical couch is quite a comfortable place to evaluate the actions of others.
The baby should never be tossed out with the bath water. Those "sucka's" instilled a lot of pride in black folks during those times in which we were still hanging our heads and "laughing when we weren't amused" and "scratching where we didn't itch."
Stuck in NYC said:
"Obama has legal training and I am quite sure the order is written to include the word/s "capture" or "bring" to justice"
Actually it is what it is, it is an order to shoot on sight. Look it up!
Its not what we wish it to be it is what it has been ordered.
OK, for MR and others (not AB since she thinks she's omniscient) here's a brief history of Pacifica --
In the late 40's, prior to NPR and Right wing Christian radio, pacifists in Berkeley founded a progressive, listener sponsored radio station. It eventually expanded to a 5 station network in LA, New York, DC and Houston.
For the first 40+ years, it was a a rather interesting place for news and controversial voices. Its archives are coveted by audiophiles and historians because they have some of the few recordings of such stalwarts as Malcolm X, MLK and James Baldwin.
Then it all went to pot in the late 90's. The national board wanted to set a more streamlined format to compete with NPR. This meant a central national news services and policies that basically said that if you don't have a decent audience, you lose you show. Again, logical for a non-profit radio station battling for those coveted middle class donor dollars.
But, there was an underbelly of old Left wing guard (think of the worst stereotypes of hippies and black nationalists) who fought the 'corporatization' of the network. These folks claimed to be protecting the voice of the people, but on further analysis its utter bull. These folks new that any professional radio manager would through these boring, angry conspiracy nuts on their ass for clogging up the air.
Now, to listen to Pacifica is unbearable for anyone with taste or is looking for information. Everyone who isn't some wild-eyed indy journalist is a 'corporate shill'. Pushing the 9/11 truth movement as gospel. The angriest form of racial politics. 24-7 conspiracy theories about Israel. Alternative medicine that would make the worse snake oil salesman blush.
And the number shows. The latest listening stats show that all of the Pacifica stations have been bleeding listeners and money for years. The entire network is embroiled in silly employment suits and virtually broke.
For a more succinct report, here's a link.
So once again, AB, you open your mouth without full thinking. And mell, I'm not stretching anything. I spent many years knee deep in lefty circles and frankly got burned out.
Again, I listen to Pacifica every morning out of habit, switching between Uprising, NPR Morning Edition and the Steve Harvey morning show (weird, I know). I'm on the Pacifica listserv. I'm still officially in the Greens and I worked at the locale Pacifica affiliate in Bridgeport, CT years back. I can tell you stories of crazy.
You're right there's legitimate complaints about the Obama administration. But irrational fears and nonsense is what you get on a day to day basis on KPFK or WBAI. Democracy Now and few other shows are the only examples of professionalism on the network.
And when the national board or local station managers attempt to run the station like, well as something above public access television, they're sued and harassed by old guard activists who cling to their slice of air time.
Brooklyn good points,ditto that!
WE have our own anti-defamation league of sorts in the NAACP, I know I know its not always all that but it does sometimes ring the bell about an injustice. And other orgs step to the plate on occassion.
But I feel you we could be more vigilant.
AB what up! yeah I feel you but folks are beginning to wake up to our reality.
mellaneous
Did you miss the part where I said they started out as idealists with vision and a mission.
However you cannot casually dismiss the murders of fellow Panthers Rackley and Bennett simply because they didn't tow the line.
You can't ignore that erstwhile revolutionaries Cleaver and Seale publicly kissed the asses of outright racists like Buchanan and Buckley.
Anytime one can demonstrate such capricious swings in viewpoint and position usually means that you didn't stand for shit in the first place.
AB--i'm curious about your definition of liberal, because you are not, in any sense i am aware of, a liberal.
secondly, fox news is not to be admired--they are to be abhorred.
third, i long for the day when you can stop lumping all the media together as not criticizing obama--that is simply false. and stop calling everyone an obama nazi and refusing to acknowledge that many of us some very critical views of some of his actions, about which we have been quite vocal.
you're like my son, and he's only 16. he thinks unless i agree with him that means i don't understand his position, and he just repeats the same stuff over and over.
we are all awake and aware and highly informed.
I also understand that the Confederates fought for more than just slavery, although they haven't articulated that very well.
Then you misunderstand the causes of the Civil War.
The Articles of Secession of every confederate state listed as the cause of the Civil War as slavery.
The Virginia Convention in 1961 -
Proposals Adopted by the Virginia Convention of 1861
The first resolution asserted states’ rights per se; the second was for retention of slavery; the third opposed sectional parties; the fourth called for equal recognition of slavery in both territories and non-slave states; the fifth demanded the removal of federal forts and troops from seceded states; the sixth hoped for a peaceable adjustment of grievances and maintaining the Union; the seventh called for Constitutional amendments to remedy federal and state disputes; the eighth recognized the right of secession; the ninth said the federal government had no authority over seceded states since it refused to recognize their withdrawal; the tenth said the federal government was empowered to recognize the Confederate States; the eleventh was an appeal to Virginia’s sister states; the twelfth asserted Virginia’s willingness to wait a reasonable period of time for an answer to its propositions, providing no one resorted to force against the seceded states; the thirteenth asked United States and Confederate States governments to remain peaceful; and the fourteenth asked the border slave states to meet in conference to consider Virginia’s resolutions and to join in Virginia’s appeal to the North.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_in_the_American_Civil_War#Secession_convention
LAC thats a pretty accurate history of Pacifica.
LAC
"And mell, I'm not stretching anything. I spent many years knee deep in lefty circles and frankly got burned out."
I wasn't insinuating that you were stretching the truth. What I was saying is that folks who are opposed to capitalism, are not --and in fact most are not --like the SLA or MOVE. I think if you are being fair you would agree and we could move on. Fair enough?
I suspected that you have had some bad experiences in lefty or progressive circles. So have I my freind, so have I.
But it has not dimmed my committment to a just society, it does not mean that the revolutionaries were wrong.
This is still an unjust, racist and sexist and classist society. It really does support corporate thieving and piracy and State murder for resources and money and power. It really does pit its citizens against one another so that they cannot organize to get their share of the economic pie.
And it doesn't change the fact that, "an edifice that continues to produce beggars needs restructuring."
Uptown I acknowledged what you said and said that I agreed with you that there were problems.
Now did you not read my post. I was pretty clear. got to read what I wrote Steve I was pretty thorough!
But I'll say it again STEVE YOU ARE RIGHT THERE WAS SOME PRETTY MESSED UP STUFF THAT SOME PANTHERS DID
But my point Steve that its easy to point that out without acknowledging their very many positives.
I mean whats the point of belaborign their faults? Thats what the enemies of black humanity do!
lac:
you are a weak liar and an arrogantly ignorant fool!
i am a former kpfa employee who has bashed kpfa all over my blog...
what does any of that or the bs you posted have to do with the CURRENT headline news they report on hobama????
i did not ask you to review or defend kpfa history and neither
did i!!!!
u do so ONLY because you cannot defend your own claims as pacifica RIGHTEOUSLY SLAYS hobama!!!
YOU DENIGRATED THE ENTIRE PACIFICA NETWK INCLDUING KPFA BECAUSE THEY TELL TRUTHS ABOUT HOBAMA PRESENTLY!!!
cc one lie!!!
i am STILL waiting!!!!
@mell -- again, we agree to disagree because I believe ultimately reform works best in the long term.
The problem with many on the hard left (I'm not talking about liberal Democrats, as that would technically be me) is that there's an element of demagoguery that makes reform impossible. Frankly in practice, folks in the Green Party, the environmental movement and anti-globalization folks can be just as ignorant and dogmatic as the Tea Party Right Wing thugs. They just lack the influence to be more than an annoyance.
There are others, but I need to get back to work. I'll elaborate more another time.
"But I'll say it again STEVE YOU ARE RIGHT THERE WAS SOME PRETTY MESSED UP STUFF THAT SOME PANTHERS DID"
That's all I was saying.
Particularly the leadership.
"Thats what the enemies of black humanity do!"
Well you lost me here.
I don't see how criticizing the Panthers translates to attacking black humanity.
Is criticizing the JDL an attack on Jewish humanity?
C'mom man.
maria:
perhaps YOU should define liberal as you query???
i am an anti-govt, lesbian, dem and repub hating independent, pacifist, activist, afrocentric rebel scholar, legendary radio rebel....it gets no more liberal
than
why????
what???
____
lac:
like hobama, YOU LIE!!!
"But irrational fears and nonsense is what you get on a day to day basis on KPFK or WBAI"
cc ONE example of either you liar!!!!
uts:
like hobama, YOU LIE!!!
it was NOT all u were saying when u said they went out like suckas
they went out like targeted sabotaged enemies of the state!!!
maria:
i understand your confusion
as i despise hobama
but i assure you there is NOTHING liberal about the rabid elitist that he is
liberals are not anti-government. and they don't hate anyone, and they would never, ever, under any circumstances, support the tea-party movement.
you sound more libertarian than anything else.
maria:
liberals are anti-fascist givts!!!
i live in the real world
u rest well in candyland
anyone who loves hates
every liberal i know hates how hobama is cloning gwb and drones like you hobama nazis are ignoring that!!!
EVERY liberal i know supports the tea partiers and laments how they are being libeled as racists because of a few fools
even howard zinn would support their dissent!!!
i respect anyone who protests fascists that is why i adore the BPP
hobama is MORE fascist than gwb and more warmongering too!!!
i am a proud supporter of the tea partier as many blacks and liberals u will never see on tv
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/06/black-tea-party-activists-called-traitors/
maria
there is NOTHING libertarian about obamacare/hobama
fyi
Uptown,
I have some reservations about the BPP but at end of the day thier role in America was important and from my vantage point appropriate...
I can make the same interference about our military, police, NAACP, African Studies etc...
AB - 4 words "NINE ELEVEN TRUTH MOVEMENT".
There's also the nonsense about telling people that not getting vaccinated is better for your health, particularly the H1N1 vaccine. Debating whether its rushed to market is one thing. But telling people that 100+ years of public science is wrong without significant proof is irresponsible for a credible news network.
Sorry, but the last thing any parent wants to hear is some hippie faith healer on the radio telling other people to turn their kids into walking petri dishes.
They are actual Maoist on KPFK. You know, the same Mao who had no qualms torturing dissidents.
Why do I keep getting pulled into this foolishness?
"I have some reservations about the BPP but at end of the day thier role in America was important and from my vantage point appropriate..."
Thrash, I totally agree.
It just breaks my heart to see young fearless vibrant brothers fall so far and so hard from what they began as.
Just like it's hard for me to watch Muhammad Ali today.
It's too painful.
Seeing what he is now and remembering what he WAS.
My two sons have no idea what a central figure in American life Ali was during the 60s and 70s.
To them he's a washed up boxer with Parkinson's.
lac:
u liar!
cc one pacifica broadcast that did either!!!
and 911 WAS an inside job per the firefighters who were there!!!!
see hard evidence like explosiv4es debris here:
http://www.amazon.com/American-Conspiracies-Dirty-Government-Tells/dp/160239802X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270757145&sr=8-1
http://firefightersfor911truth.org/
wake up!!!
On the morning of 9-11-01 a Military Aide informs the Vice President in the White House Bunker that an unauthorized aircraft is just ten miles out from the Pentagon, and asks, sir, "do the orders (stand down orders) still stand?", and Richard B. Cheney whips his neck around and replies, "of course the orders still stand-have you heard anything to the contrary?", and then, in just moments, the Pentagon gets hit, and the World Trade Center Towers also got hit earlier that morning as well.
Apparently, Cheney's stand down orders insured the success of the 9-11-01 attacks, as NOT a single NORAD Interceptor Aircraft was on the scene, and NOT a single defensive missile was launched or shot fired, to defend the Pentagon and the World Trade Center Towers, thereby insuring that the hit on the Pentagon, and the two hits on the World Trade Center Towers followed by the controlled demolitions at the World Trade Center Tower Buildings, 1, 2, and 7, (all blown up), could proceed, without delay or hindrance, to their destructive conclusions, in full compliance with Cheney's direct orders.
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/45255
uts:
the BPP did not "fall"
they were FELLED
there is a HUGE dif u sucka!!!
lac:
real scholars PROVED 911 was a govt hoax to begin endless wars long ago
see what real scholars have to say about that here:
http://www.911blogger.com/
lac:
see video proof of the 911 hoax here
http://911review.org/Wget/members.fortunecity.com/911/wtc/tower-explosions.htm
how do 2 planes destroy 3 entire bldgs?????
why was most debris rushed out of the country????
do ANY of your own homewk before u bash lib researchers!!!!
lac:
waiting for u to cc men any link to any pacifica feature on:
911 truth
or
h1n1
_____
why is there a HUGE surplus if h1n1???
why does hobama own stock in its creator's pharma corp???
how many people become severely ill/die from vaccines annually???
wake up!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScGC7nFDxM
lac:
millions refused to take that shot
wake up!!!
http://www.keyc.com/node/35720
Uptown,
True but I perfer to leverage the good, bad & ugly in all things.. I even understand the roles of uppity negroes, uncle toms, black conservatives, black tea baggers, snitches, all of it..
The older I get my optics become vague all I seek is more time and less judgement...I want to experience all that life has to give..I am now an explorer..I have conquered my fears....
BTx3 thanks very much for the information. That comes straight from the horses mouth! But it still doesn't help my dilemma with people who celebrate the Confederacy and then cannot answer that question;)hehehehe
You know as well as I do that if confronted with that document, they'd shit their pants because they could not deny their celebration of a blatantly racist regime.
THANKS VERY MUCH for the smoking gun that I was looking for:)
mr:
not necessarily
ie
there are documents to prove racial hatred as law but those who outlaw gays remain undaunted by them...
fyi
LAC, I've heard some physics lectures about how the physics doesn't really support what happened on 911. I don't know if I cosign with it because structural engineering never was much of an interest and truthfully I haven't aggressively investigated their assertions. However, it is something to consider!
Regarding letting your kids become walking petri dishes...well I didn't vaccinate my little son against measles mumps rubella and chicken pox. He got chicken pox last month, a pretty bad case but he got through it with copious amounts of coconut oil rubbed on his skin every few minutes for hour blocks. Me and my husband only saw him visibly itch twice and he was infected for about two weeks or so.
I am not averse to alternative medicine but think a lot of it should be substantiated with more than just anecdotes!
My husband used to do stats analysis for clinical trial studies and based upon his experience and my own paranoia, we ONLY take medications that have been out for at least one generation. At least side effect profiles and effects on fertility etc can be guaged after a generation.
We didn't do the flu or swine flu vaccines because they've not been out long enough. We take a more evidence based medicine approach.
And I damned sure wouldn't want to take something that was just put out or give it to my baby son husband or dog!
Alicia I don't understand your comment?! I think that the goals of the Confederacy were clearly articulated in the text provided by BTx3. The Higginbotham book I cited a few days ago also highlights the colonial laws designed to specifically disenfranchise Blacks, mulattoes, mestizoes and indians. What are you saying about gays again?
Thrasher,
"I even understand the roles of uppity negroes, uncle toms, black conservatives, black tea baggers"
You mind telling me what their roles are, as far as positive contributions are concerned?
Seriously, I wanna hear this.
MR--you said --
Regarding letting your kids become walking petri dishes...well I didn't vaccinate my little son against measles mumps rubella and chicken pox.
but then you said-- We take a more evidence based medicine approach.
these two are in direct conflict. folks who don't vaccinate their children as recommended are foolish and irresponsible, and, in my view, uneducated about the reason why many diseases have been eradicated and what the risk -- to themselves and everyone else -- is if large scale refusals like yours take hold.
for this reason, i would not want my children in school with yours, and when your child DOES go to school, you will have to vaccinate him or go through whatever procedures there are for being exempt (if there are any).
those vaccines have been around a long time and are proven to be safe and effective--that's the definition of evidence-based medicine.
surely you know that the autism-vaccine link has been throughly debunked, and the one man responsible for all the hysteria recently found guilty of scientific misconduct.
like you, however, i did not choose to have my children vaccinated against swine flu because the i knew how the drug trials were being run, did not feel confident they were either safe or necessary and i did not consider my children at high risk. i also monitored where the outbreaks were.
uts:
they positively prove that some blacks are smart enough NOT to judge hobama by his blackish skin rather than his fascist elitist ruthless warmongering rabid actions!!!!
http://blackagendareport.com/?q=content/black-america-sinking-new-%E2%80%9Cbottom%E2%80%9D
Ford
The Black job market is imploding, even as the moneyed classes congratulate themselves on having “turned the corner” toward economic recovery. Alarming Black unemployment patterns indicate that “a perfect storm of racial disadvantage” has occurred. “Virtually nothing prevents the boss from acting out his prejudices and greed with impunity.” There’s nothing “post-racial” about the current crisis for Black workers.
The casino economy was (temporarily) “turned around” by the transfer of many trillions of dollars of public funds to Wall Street, mainly through the Federal Reserve. The bankster bailout was carefully captained at every critical juncture by Barack Obama, starting with his rescue of the initial bailout bill while still a candidate. Meanwhile, Black America is going down, drowning in unemployment, foreclosure, gentrification, mass incarceration and accompanying social disintegration. African Americans have the great misfortune to have invested all their political capital and energies in a president who is actively hostile to any measures that would directly address the particular Black condition, even as that condition deteriorates by the day. It’s past time that Blacks relearned a lesson: “If there is no struggle, there is no progress.” We need a movement.
Thrash
That buckdancing coon Thomas Sowell, when faced with incontravertible evidence of tea party racism, couldn't bring himself to denoounce the racism.
He just implored the tea parties not to "inject race into the conversation".
PATHETIC.
These black conservatives wouldn't confront a white racist if they slapped their mother right in front of them.
They have to convince themselves that massa luvs them and all the tea partiers are about is smaller government.
Give me a freakin break.
Maria, you are free to disagree but watch the name calling. I haven't called you out of your name.
Evidence based medicine simply says that you need to see how the medicine affects people before you give it to masses of other people. Does that not make sense?
My sons pediatrician told us that even if we vaccinated him against chicken pox that he could still get it and later in life he could get shingles if his immune system went down. So how might a chicken pox vaccine benefit him?
We vaccinated him against polio, diptheria, tetanus, and pneumococcal disease.
The other childhood illnesses are relatively mild and this has been shown. Go to the Mayo Clinic website and see how measles, mumps, rubella and chicken pox are classified they are considered mild childhood illnesses. This is not to say there aren't outliers but more or less that the majority of people who get these things are okay. Not only that, if a child gets measles, mumps or rubella then they are conferred life long immunity, whereas a vaccination has to be updated with boosters every now and then.
Maria, you don't have to be rude to engage me or anyone else.
You can disagree without going there.
AB
Please stop this silliness.
That buckdancing coon Thomas Sowell, when faced with undeniable evidence of tea party racism, couldn't muster enough guts to denounce the TP racism.
He just implored the tea partiers to stop "injecting race into the conversation."
That's what black conservatives are about.
They have to convince themselves that massa luvs them and that the tea partiers are all about small government.
Even when they promiscuously spew racial slurs, spit on black legislators, accuse Obama of promoting "White Slavery" and other outright bull$hit.
BTW, why weren't you calling for a "movement" when Bush was in office?
And you can deny it all you like, your attacks on Bush in no way approached the unbridled venom you have for Obama.
You wouldn't be wearing a red and white spotted rag on your head these days would you, AB?
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