Tuesday, August 17, 2021

? of the day.


The question of the day is this:

Who do you blame most for the s**tshow in Afghanistan right now?

Here are your choices.

A. George W. Bush. (Sent troops there in the first place.) 

B. Barack Obama. (Didn't get them out)

C. Donald Trump. (Legitimized the Taliban and freed thousands of their soldiers.) 

D. Joe Biden. (Bungled the withdrawal of American allies and Afghan interpreters.)

E. The Afghan people themselves. (They didn't even put up a fight. And maybe they were never going to.)

77 comments:

Anonymous said...

E

Anonymous said...

F.  The military and financial interests for whom any war is a profit-making opportunity.

Anyone want to guess just how over-represented White casualties are in Trashcanistan and Iraq?  Blacks go for the REMF specialities, not the ones at the tip of the spear.

Anonymous said...

Bush, by a long stretch.

He launched a second, completely unnecessary war for absolutely no reason, while we were already engaged in Afghanistan. Iraq sucked away most of the resources that were necessary to fight the Taliban. His administration didn’t cut off the money supply to the Taliban from Pakistan and other regional actors. He took on this “nation-building” job, but then appointed bureaucrats who failed utterly in helping the Afghanis to create a functional democratic government. The ones the Afghanis actually got were extremely corrupt. A big part of why the government fell in a week was because the parasites at the top had sucked off so much cash that there was no money to pay the army. Many soldiers hadn’t been paid in 6-9 months. The Taliban paid them to quit, so they did.

Disgraceful.

Anyway, I think Trump and Biden screwed up too in the way they exited the country, but the war was already lost before Obama ever took office. There was no way of winning without sending a massive new influx of troops into the country, but the American public had already been footing the bill for many years at that point and would never have tolerated that. Obama’s hands were tied, and so were Trump’s and Biden’s.

BootsandBraids said...

Bush

fortune said...

The shrub

dinthebeast said...

Well, Bush, in that he went to war because he was angry and paid no mind to the consequences. For him, and all of the other neocons (Rummy, Cheney, etc.) it was all about revenge and making their dicks look big.
For the war profiteers, it was a golden opportunity that they exported to the very Afghans we tried in vain to set up in a way that we were familiar with but bore no relationship to how the Afghans lived or the traditions they lived by, so that "they took the money and ran" was always going to be the outcome for them.
I'll tell you who is manifestly NOT to blame for this inevitability,
my congresswoman at the time, Barbara Lee, who was not just the lone vote against this prep school punk's idea of retribution, but has been working steadily ever since to get the goddamn AUMF repealed.
And now she may succeed, too late for Afghanistan, but not too late for the next goddamn military fit some cornered president will inevitably try to throw.

-Doug in Sugar Pine

Mike said...

F. All of the above.

mike from iowa said...

dumbass dubya and his neocon war criminal buds.
Military lobbyists.

Biden gets the least blame as his views on Afghanistan have been consistent from his time as Obama's Veep.

drumpf gets high blame for icreasing civilian casualties in bombing raids and drone strikes and for setting many Taliban leaders free to rejoin fight.

Paradoctor said...

A, B, C, D.

Not E; why blame someone for not fighting for what they never believed? The previous Afghan government vanished away so softly and suddenly, it's as if it was never there in the first place. Trump negotiated, and Biden approved, a peaceful transition of power to the Taliban. The Afghans spared themselves a Nixonian 'decent interval'.

It's the relative peacefulness of the transition that so upsets our political class. If only the place had gone up in flames the moment US troops left, then that would somehow justify the war. As is, being hated is better than being blown off.

Anonymous said...

“ Not E; why blame someone for not fighting for what they never believed? The previous Afghan government vanished away so softly and suddenly, it's as if it was never there in the first place. Trump negotiated, and Biden approved, a peaceful transition of power to the Taliban. The Afghans spared themselves a Nixonian 'decent interval'.

It's the relative peacefulness of the transition that so upsets our political class. If only the place had gone up in flames the moment US troops left, then that would somehow justify the war. As is, being hated is better than being blown off. ”


You’re kidding yourself if you believe that the majority of Afghan people want to live under the Taliban. The terrified masses trying to force their way onto US planes to flee the country attests to their unpopularity. The Taliban ruled as an oppressive theocracy. Zero women want to live under them, so that’s HALF the country right there who object to their return.

The problem lay in the awful choice they were given between the Taliban or the crooks in the government set up by the US. That’s why the Taliban have won, not because the people actually love them.

The “relative peacefulness” of the transition won’t last. It will be followed by the extreme violence of the Taliban taking revenge on everyone who opposed them over the last decade. And the reversion to subservience of Afghan women has already begun. Women are already being expelled from their jobs, banned from schools, and punished for not wearing burqas outside the home.

There won’t be a period of joyful liberation that vindicates those who opposed the war. Afghanistan will turn into a shithole. I guess it will be a peaceful shithole, eventually, after all the dissidents have been murdered or imprisoned, but I don’t see much reason for celebrating that.

Anonymous said...

*last two decades

dinthebeast said...

As that old pundit Procol Harum once said:

Conquistador there is no time
I must pay my respect
And though I came to jeer at you
I leave now with regret
And as the gloom begins to fall
I see there is no aureole
And though you came with sword held high
You did not conquer, only die

-Doug in Sugar Pine

mike from iowa said...

Great song, Doug.

PilotX said...

All of the above but Afganistan should be instructive as Republicans want to install a similar theocracy here.

Gambler2 said...

Bush and only Bush. He knew that the Soviet Union had not been able to stabilize the country, but he started the war anyway. This was both stupid and reckless.

Anonymous said...

“All of the above but Afganistan should be instructive as Republicans want to install a similar theocracy here.”

Those guys certainly exist; however, without minimizing the near-term threat they pose to abortion access and gay rights, they are a small and shrinking minority even within the Republican Party. Racism, on the other hand, is orders of magnitude more widespread and dangerous here in America.

To put it another way, if my worst fears are realized and the US turns into some kind of evil authoritarian dystopia, it is more likely to look like “Man in the High Castle” than “Handmaid’s Tale.”

Mystere said...

Well, A, if I'm sticking to the list. But really, I blame the Soviets. If they'd stayed out of Afghanistan, the right-wingers in the US gov't would never have had any reason or "excuse" to arm any opposition there in the first place.

dinthebeast said...

I blame the goddamn hubris that led a first-year president to believe he could succeed where Genghis Khan and Alexander the Great could not.
Just because you are very angry does not give your army any better abilities in an impossible situation, and part of the job of commander in chief is knowing that.

-Doug in Sugar Pine

Anonymous said...

Senator Tom Cotton has chosen Option F: We lost in Afghanistan because of Critical Race Theory.

I swear to God. Cotton tweeted this. For real. At this point, Republicans are beyond parody. Literally every single bad thing in the world is because of Critical Race Theory.

Impotence. Stretch marks. Slow checkout lines at the supermarket. The cancellation of NCIS: New Orleans.

That dirty bastard Critical Race Theory is to blame for ALL OF THEM.

The horror.



mike from iowa said...

Obama gets a pass since he inherited so much misery from dumbass dubya along economic lines, he didn't need the war plus magats to distract him. He got them anyway.

the bewilderness said...

Military leadership from Betrayus right through all the rest of the defense contractor representatives in the Pentagon that orchestrated the coup in 2002 that cut and kept the State Department out of the loop.
The corporate media for marketing lies and refusing to report the truth.

the bewilderness said...

And GW Bush, of course.

PilotX said...

“Racism, on the other hand, is orders of magnitude more widespread and dangerous here in America.”

That kind of goes hand in hand with the ignorance and anti-history anti-science crowd. This is why CRT must be defeated at every turn because the history that’s being taught in private schools and public schools soon after gives us an interesting take in which Black Supremacists were the biggest problem in the 60’s, slaves were “immigrants” and there were no race problems in America until Obama became POTUS. Just think how much faster this will take off as the civil rights generation dies off. It’s a blessing and a curse to live in interesting times.🀷🏾‍♂️

PilotX said...

https://mobile.twitter.com/kayleighmcenany/status/1428174134677225472

PilotX said...

These people are delusional.πŸ˜‚

Anonymous said...

Vaccine = Death

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Ecux1OTy56oK/

Anonymous said...

biden/harris (Team Shit the Bed) have bungled another crisis. Everything they touch turns to shit.

mike from iowa said...

Fuck you, anymoose!

Overall, we rate BitChute extreme right and Questionable based on the promotion of conspiracy theories, propaganda, hate speech, poor sourcing, fake news, and a lack of transparency. This source is not credible for accurate information and may be offensive to some (most)

Media Bias/Fact Check

dinthebeast said...

For the first time in recorded history, it rained at the Greenland Summit Camp, a research station near the normally frigid top of the ice sheet.

-Doug in Sugar Pine

Paradoctor said...

PilotX said "these people are delusional", and right away an anonymoid parroted "Vaccine = Death". Good timing, PilotX.

Gambler2 said...

Anonymous said...

Vaccine = Death

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Ecux1OTy56oK/

4:55 PM
-------------
Anyone who gets their talking points from BitChute is an idiot.

PilotX said...

“Good timing, PilotX.“

Oh they make it too easy.πŸ˜†

Flying Junior said...

We never gained any traction in Afghanistan because the Army subcontracted the actual fighting out to the so-called warlords. We were never in charge of anything.

How's that for an original thought? That's why Bin Laden initially slipped away as well.

dinthebeast said...

And now those aging warlords had no reason, or really, stomach, for a war with the Taliban, so they took bribes and peace deals with them instead.

-Doug in Sugar Pine

Anonymous said...

“We never gained any traction in Afghanistan because the Army subcontracted the actual fighting out to the so-called warlords. We were never in charge of anything.”

We fought the Taliban for a while. But when they fled into Pakistan, our troops didn’t get to follow them there. We decided to send them to Iraq instead, because reasons.

mike from iowa said...

https://www.rawstory.com/texas-dan-patrick-black-people/

Texass magat blames Blacks for pandemic in Texass, not unvaccinated wasicu wasteys m,agats with pastey white hides.

mike from iowa said...

mike from iowa
2021-08-20
What magats become when not fly dusted in infancy… (Hint…Charlie Jirk)

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/aug/19/charlie-kirk/charlie-kirk-baselessly-claims-biden-intentionally/

Claims Biden bungled withdrawal so he could import hundreds of thousands of Afghans to vote for Democrats.

Anonymous said...

Marxist democrats = Disaster

Anonymous said...

Anyone who gets their talking points from BitChute is an idiot.

8:03 PM

Anyone who gets their talking points from Field negro is an idiot. There I fixed it for you.

Anonymous said...

Notice how African Americans largely refuse to get the "vaccine"(toxin) because they know Covid is a scam by the White liberals.......

Gambler2 said...

Anonymous said...

Anyone who gets their talking points from BitChute is an idiot.

8:03 PM

Anyone who gets their talking points from Field negro is an idiot. There I fixed it for you.

10:16 AM
-----------------
So please give me an example of my using talking points from Field Negro, or otherwise butt out.

mike from iowa said...

Field doesn't do talking points, Gomer.

mike from iowa said...

Mike Richards is out as Jeopardy host. Old tweets come back to haunt him.

What was so bad about Kunta Kinte?

Anonymous said...

The lieutenant governor of Texas says that spiraling COVID rates in his state are mainly the fault of black people. I guess all the idiot Trump fans who didn’t get vaccinated because they listened to the former president (“it’s just the flu”) somehow don’t count.

He also apparently assumes that when black people fail to get vaccinated, it’s solely Democrats’ job to try to do something about that. Even though Democrats don’t run Texas and most of the resources are in the hands of Republicans.

Nice.

anotherbozo said...

F.The American people.

Tough call, but if they'd moved their collective ass to judge between Bush and Gore there wouldn't have been a contest, there might not even have been a 9/11 and certainly not an invasion of Iraq or the beginning of a "land war in Asia," with all the historic warnings thereto. A lot of ifs in that answer, but you asked about blame aka causality.

The enemy was ignorance and lack of involvement in our democracy, ie, us.

dinthebeast said...

So apparently the newest right wing media thing is called "Rumble" and will feature the likes of Tulsi Gabbard and Glenn Greenwald.
None for me, thank you very much.

-Doug in Sugar Pine

dinthebeast said...

From Susie Madrak's blog:

Gin McNarnia
@Jimmcnary
Bomber: I did it for Trump

Media: It is a mysterious mystery

Bomber: Nope, definitely trying to reinstate Trump

Media: We may never know why

Bomber: Hi, President Biden? Resign and reinstate Trump or I blow up. This is my sole demand.

Media: Questions abound, answers elusive

-Doug in Sugar Pine

Anonymous said...

“So apparently the newest right wing media thing is called ‘Rumble’ and will feature the likes of Tulsi Gabbard and Glenn Greenwald.”

So, fake left-wingers and insane left-wingers, then?

Anonymous said...

“From Susie Madrak's blog:

Gin McNarnia
@Jimmcnary
Bomber: I did it for Trump

Media: It is a mysterious mystery

Bomber: Nope, definitely trying to reinstate Trump

Media: We may never know why

Bomber: Hi, President Biden? Resign and reinstate Trump or I blow up. This is my sole demand.

Media: Questions abound, answers elusive”


There is little news interest in this newest member of Y’All Qaeda, Floyd Ray Roseberry (could he possibly have a more rednecky name?), I suspect mostly because he is such a massive clown.

He spewed endless Trumpian “patriot” tough-guy talk on his Facebook terrorist martyrdom video, the usual “watering the tree of liberty with
blood” garbage, and yet it turns out he forgot to bring any bombs to carry out his patriotic bombings. Oops. Roseberry is all hat and no cattle, to use the vernacular of his backwoodsy people.

PilotX said...

"Even though Democrats don’t run Texas and most of the resources are in the hands of Republicans."


Red states are usually very fat and unhealthy. Reason #1,257 not to vote Republican.

mike from iowa said...

I dissected Rumble about a week ago. Full on magat conspiracy bullshit not worth any normal persons time.

mike from iowa said...

Wired says this about Rumble, which is co-owned by Dan Bognincompoop, Rumble claims that it does not promote misinformation or conspiracy theories but simply has a free-speech approach to regulation. However, our research reveals that Rumble has not only allowed misinformation to thrive on its platform, it has also actively recommended it.

Media Bias/Fact Check is even more to the point if you care to look it up.

mike from iowa said...

Dems are starting to fight to rein in out of control SPOTUS.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/08/john-lewis-house-democrats-supreme-court-reform.html

Lets hope blue dog Dems don't fuck this up.

dinthebeast said...

From Steve Benen:

"The Capitol Police officer who fatally shot Ashli Babbitt outside a door of the U.S. Capitol during the Jan. 6 riot has been formally exonerated after an internal investigation, according to a department memo obtained by NBC News."

-Doug in Sugar Pine

HA HA! said...

Iggner murderer in the Knoxville horror case denied a revocation of his death penalty.

https://www.wate.com/news/local-news/appeals-court-upholds-conviction-death-penalty-for-ringleader-in-newsom-christian-murders/

Justice is not yet quite a thing of the past in the FUSA.

dinthebeast said...

Whatever happened about that white guy who blew up a chunk of Nashville, anyway? Did we just get bored and wander off from that one?
So apparently there have been a few helicopter flights into Kabul airport, and a couple of unverified reports that the 82nd Airborne were there to facilitate such transfers.
If true it's very good news.

-Doug in Sugar Pine

dinthebeast said...

"Lets hope blue dog Dems don't fuck this up."

Yeah, let's, but those fuckers can fuck up almost anything.

-Doug in Sugar Pine

Anonymous said...

“Lets hope blue dog Dems don't fuck this up.”

Something something bipartisanship … something something filibuster … something something hallowed Senate tradition … ”

— Manchin and Sinema

mike from iowa said...

Good news for the Capitol police officer, Doug. That is justice and Ashley Bobblehead got hers, too.

Time to play hardball with traitors. Use violence against the government, get blown away. No questions asked, no quarter given.

mike from iowa said...

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/21/minnesota-gop-in-ruins-shocking-scandal-506487

Magats at it gain with sex trafficking and other nasty charges. Too bad. So sad.

Anonymous said...

President Biden's disastrous bungling of our withdrawal from Afghanistan this week has left American citizens stranded and placed Afghan women and children in severe danger from the Taliban. It has even put our closest allies at risk. The Biden Administration's chaotic and naive withdrawal leaves the entire region less secure. Our NATO and European allies are a complete oversight in Biden's misguided foreign policy agenda.

Anonymous said...

SCAMDEMIC

Anonymous said...

BIDENGHAZI

Anonymous said...

DUMBKIRK

Anonymous said...

“President Biden's disastrous bungling of our withdrawal from Afghanistan this week has left American citizens stranded and placed Afghan women and children in severe danger from the Taliban.”

Get real. We’re not going to leave any American personnel behind.

And Afghan women and children were screwed the moment it was decided we were going to pull out of the country. Decided by … who was it again? Oh yeah, President Trump.

“Our NATO and European allies are a complete oversight in Biden's misguided foreign policy agenda.”

Doesn’t caring about those guys’ opinions prove you are a part of the vast Globalist Conspiracy and best buds with George Soros? Wingnuts are supposed to hate the rest of the world now, right? So we have no allies, really. Trump says America First and to hell with NATO.

So what, exactly, do you lying shitweasels believe this week? I can’t keep up.

Anonymous said...

Heh.  Stealing Michelle Malkin's trademark word "crapweasels" without attribution.

Typical leftard shit.

dinthebeast said...

So Fergus and his felons knew Afghanistan would go tits up the moment we withdrew years ago, and had years to figure out how to evacuate Americans and Afghans who assisted us in our doomed war effort, but Stephen the fuck Miller bollixed the refugee process for the sole purpose of stranding them there.
Perhaps Mr. Miller should be parachuted into Kandahar like tomorrow.

-Doug in Sugar Pine

mike from iowa said...

magats are regularly shitweaseled by drumpf and family so much they don't even feel it anymore. Someone needs to shitweasel Malkin's asshole face. That would be an improvement she couldn't get anywhere else.

mike from iowa said...

No evidence Malkin conjured up crapweasel as a word and no proof she trademarked it. If a crapweasel was real, she'd be it.

mike from iowa said...

What a waste of a parachute. Operation Phoenix his crapweasel ass.

PilotX said...

https://www.theroot.com/iowa-white-woman-who-tried-to-kill-two-kids-with-her-je-1847525011

dinthebeast said...

From the official Twitter account of the FDA:

U.S. FDA
@US_FDA
You are not a horse. You are not a cow. Seriously, y'all. Stop it.

-Doug in Sugar Pine

Anonymous said...

“No evidence Malkin conjured up crapweasel as a word and no proof she trademarked it. If a crapweasel was real, she'd be it.”

Michelle Malkin has never invented anything.

Unless maybe you count pioneering the role for herself of Asian Uncle Tom. With a completely straight face, she publicly argued that the racist US policy of Japanese internment during WWII was justified. Her family must be so proud.

mike from iowa said...

She seemed nice, PilotX.

Paradoctor said...

Miller and friends sabotaged the visa process for Afghan allies. They put nativism over honor. Good luck getting allies for our next doomed military adventure.

Anonymous said...

All of the above.

Anonymous said...

No surprise that the POTUS bungled the whole Afghanistan operation.
He's been saying and doing dumb s _ _ t since his early days as a senator in Pennsylvania always putting his foot in his mouth by saying and doing "off the wall" things.