So Tiger finally came out of hibernation today. He had to, I suppose, to make his long awaited apology to the world. And, it seems, that everybody has an opinion about it. Tiger's apology has been the subject of more pontification and second guessing than when the frat boy and his cronies decided to take this country to war. If people in A-merry-ca had been as concerned with the frat boy's war as they seemed to be with Tiger's f&^%$#g apology maybe the damn country wouldn't be in the state it is today. But I digress.
Tiger, on behalf of married men everywhere, I am begging you to stop the madness. Please just get back to golf and never speak of your billionaire on blonds trysts ever again. You are killing us out here. Every time you come and our significant others see your ass it starts a new discussion with the girlfriends about cheating men and what dogs men are. You say you are a sex addict, and that you are being treated for it, but Mrs. Field and her crew ain't buying it. They think it's just an excuse for you to fool around. And, now that you are busted, they say that you are just using it as a last resort to save your marriage and half of your millions. I would love to argue with them and get your back, but I know better. Sorry Tiger, you are on your own with this one.
Finally, on a more serious note; I would like to congratulate everyone who opposed the Bush policies during those glorious eight years for making it out alive. Yep, it seems that the frat boy's lawyers actually gave him the OK to massacre an entire village if he wanted to. Damn, that's putting a whole different twist on Hillary's "It takes a village" meme. It might "take a village to raise a child", but it takes a dumb ass lawyer to make it OK to wipe one out.
"The chief author of the Bush administration's "torture memo" told Justice Department investigators that the president's war-making authority was so broad that he had the constitutional power to order a village to be "massacred," according to a report by released Friday night by the Office of Professional Responsibility. The views of former Justice lawyer John Yoo were deemed to be so extreme and out of step with legal precedents that they prompted the Justice Department's internal watchdog office to conclude last year that he committed "intentional professional misconduct" when he advised the CIA it could proceed with waterboarding and other aggressive interrogation techniques against Al Qaeda suspects.
The report by OPR concludes that Yoo, now a Berkeley law professor, and his boss at the time, Jay Bybee, now a federal judge, should be referred to their state bar associations for possible disciplinary proceedings.
But, as first reported by NEWSWEEK, another senior department lawyer, David Margolis, reviewed the report and last month overruled its findings on the grounds that there was no clear and "unambiguous" standard by which OPR was judging the lawyers. Instead, Margolis, who was the final decision-maker in the inquiry, found that they were guilty of only "poor judgment."
See that folks? "Poor judgement". Giving the legal authority to our president to massacre an entire village because you are a partisan hack only makes you guilty of using "poor judgement."
If John "Woo" held a press conference tomorrow to say that he is sorry, I wonder how many reporters would show up?
94 comments:
http://brokeymcpoverty.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/does-tiger-woods-owe-you-an-apology/
none.
Thanks for your post.
Double that none and the thanks.
Same old shit when it comes to the swill for small minds to relish. I don't forget the war for lies either and it the reason we're in the shit we are now. No questions no accountability. Tigger gets caught and he pays. Bush was and is special so we can't go there.
You had said previously you were done posting on Tiger...yawn.
We care about who Tiger is fucking, but we don't care about actions that go against the very definition of what we are as Americans.
You know that the Obama administration knows that this is damning: This info is released on a Friday night while the Olympics is going on.
I wonder if the reason that Obama's approval rating is hovering in the 50% range is not because the independents are not with him, but rather because his base is disillusioned with his lack of or failure to do exactly what he was elected to do: be the opposite of the status quo that existed under Bush.
And before you say that the teabaggers represent a sea change in American politics, I will tell you that they are simply a subset of the republican base, the part that hates for hate's sake. If he went to Afghanistan, killed Osama Bin Laden with his bare hands, came back and gave all the richest people a tax cut and built an electrified fence with Mexico while ending affirmative action and jailing all the gays, they would still hate him because he is too black.
Today at the CPAC conference, there was a speaker that took issue with the Obama administration killing TOO MANY terrorists.
Think......about.....that....no....you...are....not....high.
John Woo, Jay Bybee, Alberto Gonzales, Dick Cheney and George W. Bush should all be in Jail right now.
But Obama and Holder don't want to piss off a independent voter in Ohio.
I don't care about Tiger Woods. I don't even like golf.
Nigger Field:
Again, another stupid post and then you never come back to answer questions or to recognize how you have been called out.
I must say your represent the stereotype of niggers so well. Oh wait aminute, you want us to believe you don't know any niggers like that...look in the mirror. Not too hard to see them boy.
@ FN:
To your question..I am going to say 3 would show up...all print reporters.
And...
Mrs. FN is sooo right!
Peace.
~agape2010~
Field,
I too believe no one would show up for an apology from Professor Yoo.
Was it a play on words to call him Woo for your headline or are you in a hurry to watch some sports tonight?
Wonder if he had any trouble at all getting tenure? He also clerked for Clarence Thomas so he has a long history with the Republicans.
Aloha from Makaii
You are absolutely correct. We're all worried about where little Tiger has been and our country is slaughtering innocent people and blaming it on a case of "poor judgement". I'd like to see John Yoo in court facing charges. And Dick Cheney. And Ashcroft. And Rumsfield. And Bush. But that's just me.
"You say you are a sex addict, and that you are being treated for it, but Mrs. Field and her crew ain't buying it. They think it's just an excuse for you to fool around. And, now that you are busted, they say that you are just using it as a last resort to save your marriage and half of your millions. I would love to argue with them and get your back, but I know better. Sorry Tiger, you are on your own with this one."
Please remind Mrs. Field that sex and love addiction is a serious disease, and more bw have it than bm. Therefore, by logical deduction bm are devoted and loyal partners in marriages/relationships. They rarely screw around. But it's a different story with women.
Hang tough, Field. Defend yourself in self-righteous Jamaican innocent fashion! Use your legal skills if you have to.
TO ALL BM: DON'T LET "ANY" WOMAN TURN THE TABLES ON YOUR VIRGIN INNOCENCE TO COVER FOR THEIR OWN SHORTCOMINGS BECAUSE OF TIGER'S SICKNESS!
Nigger Field:
Again, another stupid post and then you never come back to answer questions or to recognize how you have been called out.
I must say your represent the stereotype of niggers so well. Oh wait aminute, you want us to believe you don't know any niggers like that...look in the mirror. Not too hard to see them boy.
___________________________________
That must be a bot.
No human being is that motherfucking stupid.
"If John Woo held a press conference tomorrow to say that he is sorry, I wonder how many reporters would show up?"
Well, if you lived in Berkeley, CA. then you would know that it would be a media circus. Also, a whole lot of people would show up...and so would a lot of cops in riot gear.
FOG
Well, Mr. Field, we (Californians) just got rid of that asshole Kenneth Starr, who was at Pepperdine. I wonder how long it will take to get rid of the new asshole, John Woo, from Berkeley? And really, I wonder, just EXACTLY WHAT THE HELL is on these "academcian's" (sic)minds, hiring these assholes in the first place? Can somebody PLEASE explain that to me?!
As for Tiger; I'm sick of Tiger, I wish he would apologize to his wife & kids and just get the hell out of my face (in the media). I don't care what he does as long he doesn't kill anybody, or who he screws. I DON'T CARE, and I bet I'm not alone in that.
SueCitySue
Field you miss the point with Yoo and Chaney and the gang. They are true believers they would never apologize. They believe they are right which is what makes folks like them so dangerous. To them its US hegemony or bust. And of course they want to make some money on the side if they can.
Trapped- you are right the Tiger deal is a big distraction while the revelation that under circumstances the Commander in Chief can do what he wants to who wants goes unnoticed.
After Tiger's prepared statement, PGA Tour commissioner, Tim Finchem, called Woods an "American hero," as if this privileged, talented superstar had just returned from a tour of duty in Afghanistan or landed a jet in the Hudson River.
"And really, I wonder, just EXACTLY WHAT THE HELL is on these "academcian's" (sic)minds, hiring these assholes in the first place? Can somebody PLEASE explain that to me?!"
Woo was hired because he is a top notch lawyer who can teach great minds. Ask Field, he'll agree.
Bob-"After Tiger's prepared statement, PGA Tour commissioner, Tim Finchem, called Woods an "American hero," as if this privileged, talented superstar had just returned from a tour of duty in Afghanistan or landed a jet in the Hudson River."
What you folks don't realize is that Tiger is a world-class celebrity. He is known throughout the world. Everybody knows Tiger and so many around the world admire him. He's bigger than Michael Jackson was world wide.
Do you get it now?
Tiger is not a just a celebrity. That does not begin to tell the story of why Tiger has to apologize and go back to the course (or back to picking cotton as it were).
Tiger has to make money for the white folks he owes his livlihood. He generates millions just by showing up...he doesn't even have to play. His "celebrity" is only a shadow for the money he makes for his white supporters.
Tiger can play golf, that's it. Golf is a game that is dominated by whites...that's it. He made them money and in the process he made his money.
People's livlihoods (on a lesser scale) depend on Tiger getting back out on the course.
Billionaires have to make these types of announcements because of how many people they employ. Which is why Oprah informed people early of her retirement.
Peace.
~agape2010~
Okay, so Tiger should be Further Persecuted, cause Black women have decided, he is NOT Grovling enough for them! so is that it? well, he didn't make any of those White girl's do anything they didn't want to do! oh, and to be honest, Not, Nay one of those girl's have accused him of the R word! for, if they had, it would be, (The White woman is trying to bring down a Black man) but, since that did not happen, Black women think TIGER is NOT being BEAT down enough, by the WHITE MEDIA! TIGER WOOD'S doe's NOT, owe me an APOLOGY! and he is not CRAZY!
Tiger Wood's never, told anyone he was a Saint, and NO, I will NOT defend his behavior, but, I will NOT jump on the bandwagon and Persecute him! Tiger Wood's got caught, and it seem's to me, he was NOT hiding the fact, that he was FOOLING with ALL WHITE WOMEN! he sure don't have NO respect for WHITE WOMEN, it's as if, he was trying to say something! he was all in the White man's face and they didn't know it or they just didn't care,
So the Commander and Chief as well Eric Holder, should arrest the Corrupt Bush KLAN, is that it? No, he should pay attention to what is being said about him at the (C-PAC) Convention, and he should take every single word of it, seriously! cause you best believe, those people are out for BLOOD! and whatever the President and Eric Holder has to do to keep Black people SAFE, they have to do it! think they areNOT paying attention to, what is going on around them?
iseeisee
@field -- You did a wonderful job on tying together these stories and pointing out our very misplaced priorities. Sadly, I think you're right that no one would go to Mr. Yoo's press conference. Even worse, most A-merry-cans don't understand that the Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) is where Supremes come from or that it acts like a mini supreme court setting out what the executive branch and every agency under the executive can and can't do.
Had it not been for the relatively few stories on Yoo's depravity we very well could've been hearing the words, "Introducing the next associate justice and first Asian American member of the supreme court: the Honorable John Yoo," the next time the republicans got a SCOTUS appointment.
@Trapped in SC -- lol. You owe me monitor and keyboard cleanup for that one!
--j
LOL@Makaii. But, yes, I meant "Woo". John Woo is an action director, and Mr. Yoo was directing the Bush torture cabal. So yes, he is "Woo" to me.:)
"And before you say that the teabaggers represent a sea change in American politics, I will tell you that they are simply a subset of the republican base, the part that hates for hate's sake. If he went to Afghanistan, killed Osama Bin Laden with his bare hands, came back and gave all the richest people a tax cut and built an electrified fence with Mexico while ending affirmative action and jailing all the gays, they would still hate him because he is too black."
Classic!
Tiger's apology is an embarrassment to this golf fan. He has not violated any public trust and his behavior is not for the public to forgive. He might think other wise, but his celebrity was due because he is a superb golfer, not because of his morals or personality.
FN,
I'm with Mrs. Field on the question of sex addiction.
Bennie Abrams, a black, 20-year-old college student at Ole Miss, dies after football practice.
His white coach describes him as "well-mannered."
If the coach had been black, would he have called him that? If the player had been white would he have been called that?
WTF!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/19/bennie-abram-dead-dies-ol_n_469670.html
yes, they would GO to the press conference but it would not receive the play in the press that tiger's story does.
fact is, the "liberal" established media are complicit in all the war crimes--the wapo pushed the war in news stories and editorials, and we all know about the NYT and the "leaked" cheney crap.
on tiger, i do believe he has SA, because no rational man would cheat that much, that often and with that much to lose.
i wish him well, but i really won't read about him. i never followed golf, anyway.
Actually, I think "The Media" has most of the populace confused with people who actually give a shit about Tiger Woods and his pecadillos.
I come away with the feeling that this is a journalistic ego gymnastic. They put it all over the news, both print and electronic, then say, "My, my, my, look at the prurient interst of the public into the private lives of 'The Great'".
And it's just them looking into a mirror.
I mean, c'mon. When push comes to shove, the man hits a ball with a stick and tries to get it into a series of holes with a minimum number of swings with the afore-said stick. It is true, Wood's rind contains more malanin than most, he is younger than most, and the his special sticks could probably enable everyone on my block to live well for about a decade, but in the end, a school crossing guard is more valuable than any one of the pantheon of people who are venerated because of their ability to manage an object with a spherical cross section that is capable of bouncing.
Yes, I played little league, and I caddied, and I STILL can't figure it out.
But, Bush and Yoo and their motley crew show what's really what here in "murka". Everyone knows what's going on, but it's like being tracked by a tiger (the state). They've gone after "The Enemy" (so far mostly foreign) but domestic is just around the corner. And both "Conservative" and "Liberal" persons of authority now have these really neat tools ready to hand, and will not cavil to use them. Time isn't ripe just now, but the slap down is a-comin'. And a whole lot of rather surprising figures probably think of Yoo and Bybee as benefactors for establishing precedent.
"Actually, I think "The Media" has most of the populace confused with people who actually give a shit about Tiger Woods and his pecadillos.
I come away with the feeling that this is a journalistic ego gymnastic. They put it all over the news, both print and electronic, then say, "My, my, my, look at the prurient interst of the public into the private lives of 'The Great'".
And it's just them looking into a mirror."
Thank you, thank you, Sarge. I agree with that 100%. I think they do the same thing with Sarah Palin (particularly Chris Matthews, who obviously lusts after her).
...yop
Field,why on earth should Tiger have to apologize to everyone else for what he did in his private life that broke no laws?... Yes he hurt his wife,but it's a personal issue.
i don't care about celebrities.
Field, i'm sorry to say that the torturers getting away with it was always the plan. for a really simple reason: back when torture was "our" official policy, plenty of high ranking *democrats* knew about it. there's supposedly a video out there of some of our forces raping children and torturing women in the most heinous ways, and it was shown to top democrats as well as republicans.
no one did anything to stop it, and plenty of people did a lot to cover it up. all of Washington is guilty in this respect, so ergo no prosecutions of people like Yoo.
We have the same hypocricy of accountability in the UK. Tony Blair will probably not be sent to prison by the Iraq commission because he was told by his lawyers that declaring war on Iraq would be legal, but since it can't be proved that the lawyers were lying (or that they were coerced into making their judgements by the Bush/Blair tag team) then they will probably just get a slap on the wrist for 'making a mistake'. Blair goes off into the sunset to make £1,000,000 a year on the lecture circuit and his lawyers go off to work for some other corrupt shitheads.
on the other hand, John Terry (captain of the England football team) is going to lose his job because he cheated on his wife. Justice may have been blind once, but now she's had some laser eye surgery.
"Field, i'm sorry to say that the torturers getting away with it was always the plan. for a really simple reason: back when torture was "our" official policy, plenty of high ranking *democrats* knew about it. there's supposedly a video out there of some of our forces raping children and torturing women in the most heinous ways, and it was shown to top democrats as well as republicans"
CD, I am afraid you might be right.:(
Sarge, I hear you, but how can we escape Tiger's indirscretions, (or whatever)leaking into main stream discussion because of his fame?
And when it does, guys like me have to hear it 24/7.Because, well, he is a guy, and he is married, and....well, you get the picture. I agree with you. Time for golf already.
"Field,why on earth should Tiger have to apologize to everyone else for what he did in his private life that broke no laws?... Yes he hurt his wife,but it's a personal issue."
I agree. So again, Tiger, hit the links.
"on tiger, i do believe he has SA, because no rational man would cheat that much, that often and with that much to lose."
So Maria, are you from the school of thought that believes SA are real? I got a nasty e-mail from someone who does SA counseling and she basically told me to shut the f^&k up if I don't know what I am talking about. :) She says that SA is real and it destroys families.
Oh well, you live and you learn. Still, she needs to be telling that to Mrs. Field and her crew.
Who says Tiger Woods was getting that much sex? Number of women means nothing. If it was an addiction, it certainly didn't interfere with the time it takes for all of his conditioning, practice and the tournaments.
well...it is treated as recognized mental illness, just like depression, anxiety and alcoholism. but there is controversy; it might be left out of the new re-write of the bible psychiatrists/psychologists use (DSM-V). but these distinctions tend to be based on science, which is harder to prove, then actual experience of therapists.
there are two issues tho: is it real and does he have it?
i'm not tiger's therapist and only those treating him would be able to accurately diagnose it in him specifically but it would seem to me you can have a sex addiction (including porn), like gambling and internet use.
Tiger WOods??? WHO DAT????????????
So sorry I can't expound on Tiger...
I am too busy looking for another universe to live in... One where human rights are respected, where lawyers would never dream of writing memos saying massacres are legal, where people play sports, but do not hold press conferences on anything but their sport, where the citizens of said universe care more about whether their fellow citizens have access to health care a clean environment, quality education for their children, safe neighborhoods for all, arts are encouraged, and all are fully engaged in democracy.....
Will keep you posted on my search....
Most men suffer from sex addiction. It's just that most don't have Tiger's ability to "get their fix" as often.
Field, "So Maria, are you from the school of thought that believes SA are real? I got a nasty e-mail from someone who does SA counseling and she basically told me to shut the f^&k up if I don't know what I am talking about. :) She says that SA is real and it destroys families."
Field, SA is well known outside of the black community. Among Blacks, sex addition is looked upon as something that can be controlled on one's own power, and is not a disorder. But Blacks have a long way to go in recognizing psychological pathologies. They seem to look down on anything that indicates a sick emotional mind.
After being in the field of Sex and Love Addictions there are just as many lives destroyed from it as alcoholism. However, I understand that most Blacks barely can recognize alcoholism as a disease let alone other mental and emotional pathologies.
Tiger is doing the right thing for himself. He is not concerned about you. He is trying to overcome a serious mental and emotional disease.
From your concern about what Tiger is doing BECAUSE it is making things hard for you and Mrs. Field, you might want to consider marriage counseling before things blow up.
Because Tiger has a long way to go, and appears committed to overcoming his defect of character. I applaud him.
@Field,
Thanks for answering my question, I had not thought of Woo the Director of movies.
I see you made sure the Yoo name is in the label below the article.
AND I agree with --j at 5:47 AM , that Yoo would have been on the short track to SCOTUS before this little bump in the road. AND he sure doesn't seem a good fit for Berkeley Law school, oh well, what do I know! His wiki page says he got his early education in Philly.
Aloha from Makaii
I don't think it's so much an addiction to sex itself, as it is an addiction to sexing many different women, 'cuz you can have tons of sex with just one woman.
Maybe that's why the Arab sheiks had harems? Well, if sex with different women is an addiction, then I would venture to say that about 95% of men need intensive therapy in "sex rehab".
My goodness, please let's not also drum the sex drive out of the American male with this PC business of sexual "addiction". Next thing you know they'll be getting chemical castration. And ladies let's not forget the old adage "a good man is hard to find, but a hard man is better" ;P
Anyway Isn't an addiction something that will finish your productivity, and leave you bereft of health and money? Tiger doesn't fall into this category as I see it...and as for the DSM, they've been known to have removed many conditions off the manual, such as homosexuality, which was once listed by them as a disease!
Sex addiction?....I don't think so, he's just trying to cut his losses.
I don't think Elin is coming back, he knows this, so my prediction is a divorce in the not so distant future, and then the freedom to play around as he pleases!
Go Tiger!
I think most people expect athletes to get around. Tiger's problem is that he built up this calculated image as Mr. Goody Two Shoes. He sure sold me, I was surprised to find out he even had a dick.
Would you see him in this video? He looks like he put on 20 pounds and aged 10 years.
anon at 12:39:
you had me until you said this:
Because Tiger has a long way to go, and appears committed to overcoming his defect of character. I applaud him.
if you believe SA is a disease, then you wouldn't call it a character flaw.
@anon 7.49 -- I read the story about Bennie Abrams earlier and it broke my heart. Twenty is far too young to die -- not even old enough to take his first legal drink. Abrams was apparently a juco transfer walk-on who wasn't on scholarship. I think that bit is important. Walk-ons, even ones who become major stars in college and the NFL or well after a scholarship or fat check is awarded, often always feel they have something to prove and that they need to keep pushing themselves a zillion times harder than those awarded scholarships straight out of school.
The reports are that he was on a standard run and had trouble believing and that indicates to me he likely died of a heart related issue. Athletes can often develop a form of cardiomyopathy/heart failure that stems from the heart muscle growing too strong/thick. This can happen naturally or it can happen via using either legal performance enhancers or illegal ones and the off-season is the prime time for illegal use sometimes encouraged by those affiliated with staff (of course they maintain plausible deniability). At any rate it's a tragedy, although there are risks to all sports, especially football, no one should die in a training run.
The SEC, in particular, is wealthy enough to implement non-invasive echocardiograms (pretty much a sonogram of the heart) as standard procedure to detect hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and other heart problems which are the big killer for young athletes who suddenly die like this. I would love to see that implemented in the SEC and other wealthy conferences as a preventative and honor to this young man. It's really a sin for the SEC not to implement this simple measure that could save lives.
As to the phrase well-mannered, I'm from the South so I hear that phrase in context of praising young men all the time. It's a fairly common expression here and it's used to praise young white men all the time -- all young men who are considered nice and polite. It's most often used to refer to young men as opposed to young women.
I just typed tebow well-mannered into google and lots of results popped up so there's that. It even turns up on Peyton Manning and he's well past college age.
I think the bigger issue here is getting schools to treat their college athletes better and spring for more modern tests to detect ailments before they end in tragedy. SEC schools and other major conferences make millions off these men -- they can spring for a test to save lives.
--j
**"had trouble believing" should be he had "trouble breathing"! I think the spellchecker had some fun with me there.
--j
who really cares folks? i mean really? c'mon.
I see no reason for him to apologize to anyone but his wife. A public apology might make her feel better and I haven't been following the details much, but is that what she wanted him to do?
John, fuck woo.
Maria, "if you believe SA is a disease, then you wouldn't call it a character flaw."
Character disorder and sex addiction come together. It's one thing to love sex, it's another to 'obsessed' with it.
Both sex addiction and character defects are interrelated, you can't treat one without the other.
no, an illness is not a character defect. perhaps you're using character disorder and character "defect" interchangeably but i believe that is incorrect.
you may be referring to a 12-step or religious orientation to SA treatment, but i don't believe those types of treatment work (or work alone). there's a more component to calling SA a character "defect" that i reject.
No man genuinely believes in sex addiction. The male sex drive is so strong, it is more of need than a want. That is like akin to being addicted to air. Its just a good excuse to sell gullible women. That's too funny. Its only an addiction when your married and get caught. Before that, its called being a stud.
"That is like akin to being addicted to air. Its just a good excuse to sell gullible women. That's too funny. Its only an addiction when your married and get caught. Before that, its called being a stud."
Such is the nature of character.
Maria, "you may be referring to a 12-step or religious orientation to SA treatment, but i don't believe those types of treatment work (or work alone). there's a more component to calling SA a character "defect" that i reject."
I work in this field so I am quite familiar with character disorders as well as the disease of SA.
Why don't you should define what an illness is and what a character disorder means to you? Also, you might elaborate what components you are talking about that do not include a person's character and illness.
I do not now, nor did I ever care about Tiger's pee-pee. Or where he put it. None of my business, and it brings up visuals that I would rather avoid.
That being said, when I analyze the situation. I have to say, he got married way too soon. I say that all should avoid it until you are in your 30's. Especially men. Women are different, IMO. But only because they have a limited amount of time to procreate. If that's what they choose to do.
And while I'm on it, this whole European concept of one man, one woman is so anti-logic it astounds me. A serious look back to b4 these folk positioned themselves to dictate policy shows a completely different mindset. We were not designed to be monogamous. IMVHO, being monogamous has absolutely nothing to do with your ability to love. And what I have seen, shows it had more to do with finance than any religious view. The bible is full of polygamous relationships.
Now Yoo on the other hand should be subject to an International tribunal. Much like the Nuremberg Trials. I tend to suspect there are bigger reasons why even the US government is seemingly wishy washy on this issue. I suspect the practice has gone on for a much longer period than any of us think. An ANY fingering of one will be a fingering of a whole lot of people.
I have been wrong b4. But this smells.
you've twisted what i wrote, and failed to answer what i asked you--
which was specifically whether you were using a character "defect" and character "disorder" to mean the same thing.
i asked because they are not.
further, to believe that alcoholism esp. and SA is a result of a "character defect" is to believe it they NOT caused by a disease or illness. and they are.
the character defect thing comes from AA and other groups that expose the falsehood that "god" , etc., will remove the "character defect."
that's not treatment, that's not medical science, that's not what any of the accredited SA treatment programs believe or alcoholism researchers or the substance abuse division of HHS believes.
there is absolutely no evidence to support the character defect theory and it is extremely harmful, and dangerous. i don't know who you work for, what your background, training or credentials are, but you are not practicing the standard of care.
taken straight from the govt. website on alcoholism:
FAMILY HISTORY
Both alcoholism and depression have genetic components, meaning that these illnesses run in families and that a person's genetic make-up contributes to each of these illnesses.
Neither mental illnesses nor substance use disorders are due to a "character defect."
Children of alcoholics are four-times-more likely to develop alcohol use disorder. Children of parents who have depression are also more likely to develop a mood disorder.
http://mentalhealth.samhsa.gov/cmhs/communitysupport/toolkits/cooccurring/workbook/chapter2.asp
Sorry DSL issues I guess.
You guys really don't want my deep thoughts on Tigger and his wife Eivin....
I don't wish anything well for Tigger anymore than I would for the grand Wizard of a Klan rally, and I could care less what he's supposedly addicted too. This so called "sex addiction" would be the least of his demons. Furthermore, It's a cop out, it doesn't even apply here. But it's all well because white America/white society (like ass grinder) won't be able to process the truth, nor the racial aspect behind sicko Tigger's mind anyway.
And no, I'm not bashing a black man, Tiger doesn't apply. He said it himself, but it seems that some black people insist on being hard of hearing.
You said Tiger came our of hibernation, I guess he came out, saw his shadow and retrest back to sex therapy. I doubt Tiger is truly sorry. he is ultimately sorry he got caught just lik eevry other man who has apologized. If it would have never came to light he'd still be out there collecting more weird unattractive women.
Tiffany
http://liferequiresmorechocolate.blogspot.com/
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Maria, "the character defect thing comes from AA and other groups that expose the falsehood that "god" , etc., will remove the "character defect."
that's not treatment, that's not medical science, that's not what any of the accredited SA treatment programs believe or alcoholism researchers or the substance abuse division of HHS believes."
Maria, what you claim about the attitude of treatment centers for addictions is simply not true. What you claim about medical science regarding alcoholism is not true, either. However, I have visited this blog long enough to know that my words are falling on deaf ears. Nevertheless, I will just say the following, which I have knowledge of, and have direct experience:
Anyone who is familiar with the history of alcoholism knows about the countless failures of medical science in sobering up alcoholics. Families who have gone through much trials and tribulations with alcoholic family members also know this.
AA was born because of medical science's failure to help alcoholics. AA's record stands on its own. In fact, doctors across the country refer alcoholics everyday to AA for recovery. And that is not counting court judges who send them there.
Your comments about AA sound as though AA is some crackpot organization where God is not real, and does not exist--or as you say, "is a falsehood."
I won't argue with you. It is your choice to believe whatever you believe. However, there are millions of recovering alcoholics who are sober because of the existence of a Higher Power that so many call God-consciousness, or simply God.
Regarding Science, you might check the well known psychiatrist, Carl Jung's role in helping to establish AA; and what he had to say about the "cure" for the chronic alcoholic--the necessity of a "spiritual experience", a phenomena that has been known to cause huge emotional displacements and 'rearrangements' of character...."Ideas, emotions, and attitudes which were once the guiding forces of the lives of these men are suddenly cast to one side, and a completely new set of conceptions and motives begin to dominate them."
Dr. Silkworth, Dr. Foster Kennedy-neurologist, Dr Collier-pyschiatrist, Dr Tiebout-psychiatrist. There have been, and are, a host of medical doctors who attest to the effectiveness of AA where medical science has failed miserably. Maria, because science can't prove something does not necessarily mean that something is false, or does not exist.
Lastly, you might want to go back and check your previous comment because you did not ask me a question or ask for an explanation of disorders or illnesses. You made a definitive statement about them. No where was there a question mark.
Field:
Your response to the stupidy of reva, only takes you away from your thinking, by wasting time with an idiot.
field negro said...
LOL@Makaii. But, yes, I meant "Woo". John Woo is an action director, and Mr. Yoo was directing the Bush torture cabal. So yes, he is "Woo" to me.:)
"And before you say that the teabaggers represent a sea change in American politics, I will tell you that they are simply a subset of the republican base, the part that hates for hate's sake. If he went to Afghanistan, killed Osama Bin Laden with his bare hands, came back and gave all the richest people a tax cut and built an electrified fence with Mexico while ending affirmative action and jailing all the gays, they would still hate him because he is too black."
Classic!
7:40 AM
You are one confused Field Negro. Nobody hates Obama because he's black - Obama is not even black! He just plays one on TV. Pretending to be black is the only thing that got him elected.
'Obama is not even black! He just plays one on TV'
ha! reminds me of a George Carlin bit: 'James brown is openly black, Colin Powell is not. Colin powell is openly white, he just happens to be black'.
"Field:
Your response to the stupidy of reva, only takes you away from your thinking, by wasting time with an idiot."
Reva who?
"You are one confused Field Negro. Nobody hates Obama because he's black - Obama is not even black! He just plays one on TV. Pretending to be black is the only thing that got him elected."
OK, that was funny.
"I don't wish anything well for Tigger anymore than I would for the grand Wizard of a Klan rally, and I could care less what he's supposedly addicted too."
Not wanting to pretend he is 100% black and thus deny his own mother does not make him racist. Sleeping with white women exclusively doesn't make him racist anymore than it does a black man who sleeps with only black women.
He doesn't have racial hangup. However, there is a good chance you might.
Anonymous 8:20pm said:
"Regarding Science, you might check the well known psychiatrist, Carl Jung's role in helping to establish AA; and what he had to say about the "cure" for the chronic alcoholic--the necessity of a "spiritual experience", a phenomena that has been known to cause huge emotional displacements and 'rearrangements' of character...."Ideas, emotions, and attitudes which were once the guiding forces of the lives of these men are suddenly cast to one side, and a completely new set of conceptions and motives begin to dominate them."
Dr. Silkworth, Dr. Foster Kennedy-neurologist, Dr Collier-pyschiatrist, Dr Tiebout-psychiatrist. There have been, and are, a host of medical doctors who attest to the effectiveness of AA where medical science has failed miserably. Maria, because science can't prove something does not necessarily mean that something is false, or does not exist".
Amen! Soo true,so true! and thank God that there is this program AA for alcoholics because it does indeed rearrange priorities in their lives! True that if does not work for many, but perhaps it's also a matter of "when the student is ready,the teacher appears"
i just realized that it's not all of tiger's fault. if there were no women willing to sneak around, NONE of this crap would have happened to poor tiger. women need to develop some self-restraint. and some morals.
Anony said: "Sleeping with white women exclusively doesn't make him racist anymore than it does a black man who sleeps with only black women."
Based on that logic, by me not giving Tiger anymore compassion than I would a white Klans man shouldn't make me, nor my choice any more racist over Tiger's.
Furthermore, your comparison is viciously skewed on deeper levels, and it reeks of that selective "we are one" colorblind language deceptively used to throw-off/negate anti-black racism when it's actually prevalent. All you did was lopsidedly compared apples with nail polish to your twisted convenience. It didn't move me.
I suspect you are non-black, therefore, you will never behold that privilege to dictate to me what is, or what is not anti-black racism/colorism.
"Not wanting to pretend he is 100% black and thus deny his own mother does not make him racist. "
I for one do not view Tiger as a black person, he doesn't have to pretend anything for me, and I don't have to pretend anything for him either. I too can make my own choices, and exercise my own preferences.
anon, i never said AA didn't work--i said it may NOT work and it may not work ALONE. AA is a fundamentally christian concept that is flawed in many ways, regardless of how many people it has "helped." many more--look at the number of alcoholics who exist--have not found help.
pulling out carl jung is pretty funny!
however, you are correct in that i didn't write my comment as a question. i should have stated it more clearly.
i still believe that mental illness, alcoholism being one example, sex addiction and other addictions such as OCD being another, are not character defects. and i asked if you considered a character disorder the same thing as a character flaw. you ignored all of that. and still never answered.
i wholly and soundly reject your moral construct of these diseases as "character defects" as does the medical establishment. HHS didn't say "there is no science to say these disorders are not character flaws"--it said THEY ARE NOT. period.
you also said something about an "emotionally sick mind." again--moralizing.
when my child has asthma, i care what the medical and scientific (and govt) establishment says in the standard of care. i would want the child to receive no less. i would tell her, stop coughing. you can control it. it's just your weak character!
when my mother has heart disease i care what the medical and scientific establishment and the govt. say are the standard of care. i would want my mother to receive no less.i wouldn't tell her, don't take your medicine!
SA and alcoholism are no different. yes the person must contribute to their treatment but there are genetic and biological factors that underlie their disease.
you can take your chances with stuff that's not proven when there is care that is proven--i find that foolish.
you can tell people they have a character defect and are morally weak because they drink...i find that, as i said, dangerous and ignorant.
i suspect you're with a church group or other non-medical organization, as you have not given any indication of your background or credentials, even though i asked about them. i find that very telling.
here's one example.
you, the drinker, it's all your fault.
you just need to be a better person and you'll stop drinking.
it's BS.
http://mycharacterdefects.com/
follow up the bullshit with some truth:
http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/patoth/2010/02/alcoholism-and-aa-nationwide-malpractice/
maria
do you fight with everyone?
not fighting, debating on point. with facts.
feel free to add something.
Maria, I wasn't following the entire discourse between you and anony, but something you said jumped at me.
"i still believe that mental illness, alcoholism being one example, sex addiction and other addictions such as OCD being another, are not character defects."
I'm not disagreeing with you on that statement, but I was wondering if you felt the same way regarding obesity? It appears on a previous thread you weren't as sympathetic towards overweight/obese people.
i did not express any non-sympathy.
sorry, i'm not going where you want to go.
I love golf and I love Tiger. He should fuck as many women as possible. He should fuck a few for me since I can't seem to get any. I want him back on the course kicking white ass.
"Gloria Allred: Tiger Woods Apology 'A Staged Stunt'"
That's high praise coming from her.
Maria, "here's one example.
you, the drinker, it's all your fault.
you just need to be a better person and you'll stop drinking.
it's BS."
Maria, I had not expected to hear from you again. I thought my experience in the field of alcoholism, knowledge of AA, and the mental health field would have satisfied you. How foolish of me to think otherwise, considering how contentious you are. LOL
Nevertheless, I agree with your comment. It is BS. That example clearly displays the wrong thinking of a person with character flaws. Is that you?
I don't know why you find a great psychiatrist like Carl Jung, a joke, but I am sure you have your own informed reasons. FYI: Dr. Jung has played an enormous role in the field of mental health and psychiatry, as well as religious and spiritual fields. And he certainly had an impact on AA. Without him, AA might have never been founded, and millions of alcoholics might have died as a result. Anybody who is familiar with Jung and AA knows that.
So you have assumed that I must belong to a church or some Christian based organization? Did you ‘google’ that, or was it an ‘original’ thought of your own? Just kidding. In all seriousness, I assume your own mind informed you based on the extreme "prejudice" it carries against your own religion from childhood. Can you see how you have unconsciously projected your own prejudices against your church on to me? You really should work to rid yourself of that childhood prejudice against YOUR church, because it is blocking you from learning anything new.
Why do you want to accuse me of saying things, and being someone that I am not? That kind of contentious argument does not lead to intelligent discourse. It leads to a tit-for-tat that bares no fruit of learning, just misery.
But go ahead. Just be aware that it does indicate a ‘character flaw’ IN YOU. I am sure interested readers and posters can refer to my previous comments, along with yours, to determine for themselves what was ‘actually’ said versus what you ‘claimed’ I said. The truth will be apparent.
As far as having to explain my credentials to your demands, what difference would it make to you? As I mentioned before, I have already indicated my experience with alcoholism, AA, and the mental and addictive fields, yet it has made no difference to you.
You seem to be writing your own script on how you 'imagine' things to be in a vast field such as alcoholism, medicine and psychology, instead of how they really are.
And Maria, no one, not even God, can argue with someone with that kind of mind and character. You think like the religion you detest.
i'm not writing my own script--i quoted to you from a government website.
no need to make this personal, unless you simply can't and won't explain what you think and why, and where you got your training.
alcoholism and SA are not character defects.
i have no interest in arguing with you, but you clearly had no desire to explain what i questioned you on. from the very start.
i won't reply to this again not because you somehow impressed me with your mystery knowledge but because no one cares about this and you continue to stonewall, and now, bring down god on me--you're a fraud.
ditto fn & mrs. fn!!!
tiger showed no emotion and read way too long...and said nothing!
what a waste of time!
kudos to elin for refusing to do the perp walk with him as most abused celeb/politico wives do!
a "sex addict" is a regular old whore who gets caught...
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/link/6a0123ddb39306860b0123de11b12e860d.html
"kudos to elin for refusing to do the perp walk with him as most abused celeb/politico wives do!"
Elin is huddling with her lawyers fixin' to get paid.
uts:
ditto
it would make NO sense emotionally or financially for her to stay until his next orgy!...
______
re: priorities:
why are so many people concerned with the DATED sins of bush and cheney... yet completely IGNORE how obama has ONLY escalated and duplicated those sins!!!???!!!
tiger is no worse than any other avg whore/avg serial adulterer...he just has more cash/fame/options/bait!....
and, i noticed he had no wedding ring on...i think elin is too smart to stay wed to this whore/fool!
like obama, the blackER tiger has done EVERYTHING he could to evade his black race...why claim him????
i never have or will!!!
obama is half white & the tea partiers would not care what color obama is if he would give them homes/jobs/healthcare!!!!
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/hold-that-tiger.html
Maria, There is nothing mysterious about my knowledge that medical science doesn't know about. Try reading my comments objectively and with an unbiased mind and you will see.
You have childish emotions that are out of control. It seems to twist and tighten you inside, which makes you take flight out of fear and exasperation. However, no matter how hard you try, you won't be able to get away from it, because it IS you.
It must be very painful for you. There are highly qualified doctors at John's Hopkins in Baltimore who can help you to find some balance.
I have noticed that you argue and name call everyone you encounter on this blog. Good luck with your life, it must be quite a struggle.
Btw Maria, what is YOUR training? That is, what do YOU do for a living?
"i won't reply to this again not because you somehow impressed me with your mystery knowledge but because no one cares about this and you continue to stonewall, and now, bring down god on me--you're a fraud."
it's not that no one doesn't care they just don't want to waste time talking to an idiotic fraud like you. lol
Anon, read your comments to maria and I can tell you have experience in the field. You sound like a doctor who has been in the field of addictions for some time.
Unfortunately, your discussions fell on deaf ears but maria has always been deaf. no one can reason with her. Thank you for taking the time to inform some of us about Alcohol Anonymous and Carl Jung. I didn't know he played a role in helping to form AA.
Btw, I come from an alcoholic family and know that what you have said is true. Don't pay maria any mind, she's an angry person and she is crazy.
i think it is really important to state that anyone who needs help for either alcoholism or sex addiction or any other mental health issue seek competent, professional medical help from those who are clinically trained and understand the biological and genetic components of these disorders, as well as the latest in treatment and research.
the anon posters who chose to launch baseless attack me rather than provide facts to support their positions and spread dangerous misinformation (eg, karl jung was not involved in the development of AA) should be ignored.
best of luck to all of you.
Maria, Since a professional's comments to you in this thread could not convince you, maybe the following links will:
http://silkworth.net/dickb/thacher.html
http://www.cgjungpage.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=704&Itemid=40
MARIA
HERE'S A YOUTUBE RE: CARL JUNG, REGARDING AA. BTW, THERE IS A "LOT" OF INFORMATION REGARDING JUNG'S CONNECTION TO AA. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS "GOOGLE IT".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceoB-tE5yWI
karl jung was NOT involved in the formation of AA.
The influence of Jung thus indirectly found its way into the formation of Alcoholics Anonymous, the original twelve-step program, and from there into the whole twelve-step recovery movement, although AA as a whole is not Jungian and Jung had no role in the formation of that approach or the twelve steps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung
Maria, you are hopeless. You should read the correspondence between Bill Wilson(co-founder of AA and Carl Jung).
Btw, Jung's name is spelled with a "C" in America. Of course, if you are German, then it makes sense. And I wouldn't put all of my faith in Wikipedia if I were you. Wiki makes mistakes.
i have read the correspondence. he was NOT involved in the creation of AA.
people throw around jung's name is if somehow gives credibility to the movement. he doesn't. and you might know that jung was deemed nuts by many people. and had a nervous breakdown.
wiki is not the only source on this. just the quickest to provide here.
the only hopeless ones are those who can't face facts.
Maria, "people throw around jung's name is if somehow gives credibility to the movement. he doesn't. and you might know that jung was deemed nuts by many people. and had a nervous breakdown."
That is not true. Your ignorance of AA and other chemically dependent programs is astounishing. Yet, you have negative opinions about them.
No one is throwing Carl Jung's name around to give anything credibility. That's YOUR distorted thinking. Jung's name was mentioned as a "fact" in the origin of AA.
For someone who is obsessed with facts you contradict yourself with denying facts. Your low opinion of Carl Jung, AA and other programs that has helped save millions of lives says a lot about your knowledge and character. Btw, doctors recommend AA to a lot of their patients.
@Maria, "the only hopeless ones are those who can't face facts."
Yep, that's you.
Anon, thank you. maria is a retard.
I really hope Tiger can make a comeback and overcome his addiction. Most of all, i hope he comes back to golf!
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