Monday, June 11, 2007

The Foreigners Will Save Western Civilization.

Every now and then I get this lazy burnt out feeling, like I don't want to do this blogging thing anymore. I was sad to read where Sylvia from the AfroSpear felt the exact same thing, and as a result, took a self imposed hiatus from blogging for this next two weeks. I was sorry to read about it, but I understood it. I mean you can only shout from the roof top but so much.

Fortunately for me, every time I get to that moment, something (or someone) comes along and pushes my buttons. Or I see something in my every day life that I just have to write about. (Or in the case of this post, cut and paste about) So anyway, I was surfing the web last night when I stumbled on this little gem from a Florida State University graduate student by the name of Sumit Dahiya:

"Every morning as I get off my graveyard shift, I count the days I have left to graduate and curse the day I was left on my own to pay my way through school. As I pull out of the parking lot I tune in to Imus. Whether it was the skit on Ray Nagin or the parodying of a pill-popping Hulk Hogan, Imus has made me smile and made me forget about my miseries; every weekday morning for the last three years. This morning the birds stopped chirping and the rush hour seemed to be a menace. The laid-back and relaxed voice on the radio was replaced by the venomous barrage by Revered Jesse Jackson who is upset because television is "all white all night." The great Don Imus has been sacrificed on the "altar of political correctness and race relations" in America.

As I was following Don Imus’ indictment, trial, sentencing and execution in the courts of the "Reverend Twins," I wondered what is this all about. It is not about free speech. The double standards for free speech were set the day the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed. It was not about misogyny. In spite of his occasional gaffes about men, women, heterosexuals and homosexual, Don has always scored well with the ladies. It was not about race because the Rutgers basketball team is made up of both black and white players. So, was it about hate? Surprise! Yes it was about hate; the hatred for Western Civilization.

Kamau Kambon (a Professor at a North Carolina State University) called for the genocide of white people, I wasn’t shocked. After all, I have been a witness to a condoned and growing trend of advocacy for violence against white people and desecration of Western Civilization. Whether it was the protests in London calling for the murder of white men and rape of white women or it is the usual Hip-Hop glamorization of the thug culture and assault on women’s dignity, everything is alright as long it is the "crackers" who are on the receiving end. The same students and faculty who took part in candle-light vigils and protests against the "Duke University rapists" were nowhere to be seen when the supposed "rapists" were acquitted earlier this week for "not raping a black woman." Instead of apologizing for his promiscuously filthy remarks against the three Lacrosse players, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton utilized their time and resources to capitalize on the gaffe of an old white man who has devoted his entire life to the cause of children and grown-ups, both black and white, who are suffering from autism, cancer and other curses of Mother Nature.

Kamau Kambon is still a Professor. The protesting Muslims of Europe still mock the impotency of their hosts.
Snoop Dogg and his fellow thugs still rap about the tough gangster lifestyle they don’t live. The Duke progressives are busy enrolling for their African-American History and History of Feminism classes for the summer semester. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are buried under their own hubris for their successful whack-job on Don Imus. And, the Don himself just lost all he had achieved through his career, for making a stupid remark that no one cared about for two days until Media Matters realized its exploitative worth.
Through all this, I hear calls for a
need for dialogue on "Race in America." So, can anyone suggest to me how we could categorize Professor Kamau Kambon’s call for violence or the blind accusations against a bunch of white kids whose only crime was underage consumption of alcohol, as a "dialogue?" Isn’t the "Liberal-Progressive America" already having plenty of dialogue on "Race in America" and that too on their own terms? What more of a dialogue could they want when they can get away with just any thing they have to say that a decent person won’t say even after downing an entire bottle of Jack Daniels Tennessee Whiskey?
Entire institutions have become bastions of hatred against Western culture, values and civilization. Being neither white nor black, I was caught in the crossfire between political correctness and liberal education when I came to college. Being an outsider who was unaware of the American Liberal Education system, my reaction was "you got to be kidding," when my academic advisor drew a long list of courses (approximately 36 hours) related to African-American history, Feminism, Sexuality, Tolerance and Racism in America that I needed to take in order to graduate. I asked my advisor, how come it's Liberal education when you are forcing me to take courses that I am not interested in. I was more eager to take advanced calculus and mathematics courses to improve my career prospects, using the scarce financial resources that I had. Her response was equivalent to: "shut-up and do as I say." Over the next two years I was a victim of Liberal education. I was tormented by being forced to read Ward Churchill essays and writing reviews of Spike Lee films. For me, what was "just get the credits and get the heck out of here," for the white kids those were two years of repenting and a reminder of the evils of Western Civilization, upon the virtues and values of which, America was built.

It is a sin to explore an alternative understanding of Race in America. If anyone dares to part ways with the institutional beliefs, there is a heavy price to pay. I was an A-student in my American Cinema class. Thanks to my usual clashes with the instructor, I passed with a B in spite of having straight A’s on all exams. My instructor once mentioned how racism still persists in America and cited the example of a whites-only high-school prom in a small Georgia town. Coincidentally, that day I went back home to read Patrick Buchanan’s article on the whole controversy. The next day I presented a copy of the article to my instructor. She wasn’t visibly furious. But, her furor was evident the day I got my grades. She used a dormant departmental rule to reduce my grade for three absences which were fully excused by her in the first place. I protested all the way up to the program head Dr. Maricarmen Martinez; but it was a sail against the winds.

Don Imus became just the fodder that feeds this sadistic anti-Western culture. Imus, who is known to have been supportive of numerous black figures like Harold Ford Jr. and Barack Obama, was dumped by them in his time of need, in favor of the political fallout from the entire non-controversy. Everyone from Sen. Hillary Clinton to MSNBC’s Keith Olbermann rushed to pick up the pieces like birds of prey. The very person, who was among America’s 25 most influential individuals just a week ago, became the fossil fuel for so many political and other ambitions. Don Imus’ gaffe was just what thugs like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and Hillary Clinton were looking for to boost their Political vantage.

Race in America isn’t a social issue. It is more of a Political Issue. Huge voting blocks and chunks of cash are at stake. Individual like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and institutions like NAACP, ADL and others have undemocratically claimed guardianship of the minorities in America. They claim to have psychological and mental control over the minority voters in the voting booth. Thus, it isn’t the minorities themselves who the Politicians need to address; but they deal directly with individuals and institutions that run the franchises for wholesale lots of minority votes and issues. Just like there are elections every couple of years, these minority franchises have to invent minority-related incidents and controversies when there isn’t one to be exploited, in order to retain their control over the pulpit of minority affairs.

The whole sham is shielded under the cover of "Civil Rights." The only known credentials of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are those of marching alongside Martin Luther King Jr. So what? There were thousands of others who marched alongside Dr. King. But, those thousands others aren’t as conniving and enterprising as these two thugs. These two individuals have exploited their "Civil Rights" credentials beyond all imagination. The issue of concern isn’t what is happening. But the issue of concern is that while the media, the politicians and certain sections of the white community themselves condone it sometimes; they turn a blind eye towards it at other times, either out of political correctness or out of political gains to be made.

The victims of the sham are not the white or the black people. The victim here is the healing process that was supposed to have brought together the two major ethnic groups of this country after decades of Government-endorsed segregation. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have to remind the black people every few days of how vile and racist the white community is; and that they are fighting for equality and "Civil Rights." On one hand they condone civil threats like Snoop Dogg and other gangster rappers whose "work" promotes a thug culture in the black community at a macro level, while on the other hand they are on the lookout for a Don Imus to make a stupid remark that is nothing more than a term out of a fifth-grader’s social vocabulary.

The other victim of the whole incident is the Rutgers Basketball Team itself. I have a hard time imagining how someone would be scarred for life by being subjected to an unexpected yet stupid expletive. I once remember my roommate from Bombay (India) return home laughing about what just happened. He told me that some white kids in a pickup truck called him Osama. I laughed back and asked him what he did about it. He waved back at the kids and asked "hey what’s up." While I laughed it away that day, I never thought that I would think of that incident again, ever in my life. The whole Imus-Rutgers affair once again reminded me of my roommate’s calm demeanor and maturity. One really does not have to stoop to the irrelevance of a stupid remark. There are some very important things in the world that should be scarring us at this very moment, like global strife, corrupt governments and vile individuals like the "Reverend Twins." By being told to grieve for the stupid remarks of a Radio Show Host, most of whose listeners are middle-aged white Americans, we are cultivating a highly vulnerable generation of individual who will someday in charge of this country.

While most people may be compelled to say that Don Imus’ remarks were really evil, I beg to differ. Don’s remarks were just what he was paid for, for nearly four decades. His reckless commentary and stupid humor are what people tune in for. It was just what the corporate sponsors of his show paid for to get slots during his show. A stupid remark that is just one in a long series of lots of stupid remarks did not set these corporations’ board rooms on fire. It was the days of blackmailing and threats of picketing by Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson that forced the corporate sponsors to part ways with Imus. Imus may have worked hard enough to have a comfortable retirement. But, as he admitted on his last show, he does not need a job. He did what he liked doing the most and we the listeners did what we liked doing the most every weekday morning; to tune in to his show and start our days with a smile on our faces. He may not be doing his show anymore and we the listeners will have to juggle with our other options of morning talk shows. While everyone moves on, I wonder who will be the next target of a Sharpton-Jackson whack job. "

Now I am not going to put my man Sumit on blast. I will leave that for you, my peeps in fields, who can are more than capable of laying a royal smack down on Sumit's clueless behind. When you make statements like; "race in America is not a social.. but political issue" you are obviously smoking some serious grass from my homeland. But something about the post fascinated me and brought me a sense of deja vu at the same time. I did a little research on the author and I found that he is an Indian. So I was wondering, what is it about people of color who come to this country voluntarily and feverishly embrace the majority population's concept of racism?

Look no further than Michelle Malkin, and people like Dinesh D'Souza, and Roy Innis for my examples of these types of individuals. Not only do they not understand the African American experience, but they have embraced the "dark side" (conservatism) and they try like hell on a daily basis to bring others over with them by singing it's praises. As a West Indian I understand this phenomenon from a personal standpoint. I have aunts and friends who migrated to this country from the Islands and who, like those in the majority, have no clue about the struggles that people who were brought here against their will go through. There is not that bond with their African American brothers and sisters because they have bought into white Americas perception of black folks.

It's sad. And as someone who embraces Pan-Africanism I find it particularly troubling. I can't for the life of me understand why people of color who were born in places like India, or Jamaica, or Africa, not understand that their African American brothers struggle is their struggle. If Michelle Malkin's narrow behind thinks for a minute that any of the people who hold true power in this country will ever share it with her sorry ass, she is smoking some of that good St. Ann's collie weed from my homeland too.

So Sumit, good luck in school, and if you keep it up, there should be a spot right next to Dinesh and Michelle for you when you get out.


rikyrah said...


Black Women Want to be Maids in White Homes

Can't make this stuff up. Just can't.

Anonymous said...

You can check dude's site:

field negro said...

Thanks for the link rikyrah. "Too Sense", and PPam's House Blend" also posted something on it. Deep huh!

anon, I did check out dude's site (Thanks) The scary thing is, dude is a libertarian- or so he claims. I fancy myself somewhat of a libertarian myself; so it bothered me to think that we could have anything in common.

But this guys views on race....whew, it's kind of scary.

Francis Holland said...

Immigrants to this country adopt the majority view of "racism" because they can see the terrible price they would pay for casting their lot with Blacks. That's no excuse, but I think it explains a lot.

And there are so few minorities willing to praise the Republicans that it really creates a warm niche for the few minorities who are willing to accept the job. They'd rather be unique and celebrated conservatives heroes among the right then toil unrecognized among the many on the left. You have to be brilliant to stand out on the Left, but among Republicans you only have to be Black.

Anonymous said...

US immigrants of all colors are people who have chosen to come to America. They come with the idea of a better life and naturally buy into that American ideal. Is that really a white ideal? I don't think so.

Is Pan-Africanism a higher order than nationalism?

There are definitely challenges that African-Americans who are decendents of slavery face that new black or other people of color immigrants and other minority immigrants who may appear white do not face. So why should they bond together simply because of their color if they have different needs, interests and concers?

Additionally but seperate point,

I grew up in the 80s with the notion that Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks were Americans that I should be proud of and see as my ancestors even if its by spirit and not by blood, just as Ben Franklin's legacy is mine as well.

Why be divisive on color from any angle?

The Christian Progressive Liberal said...

A Libertarian is always a ReThug in Sheep's clothing.

Liked how you put Upshaw as the House Negro. The Raiders whipped his ass weekly for snitching and ratting them out.

And that Nightclub he used to own in Oakland, "Uppie's on the Square" wasn't the fun place to be, either. Went belly up within 5 years.

The Fabulous Kitty Glendower said...

I could not finish the whole thing, but I know this part is a lie:

“to African-American history, Feminism, Sexuality, Tolerance and Racism in America that I needed to take in order to graduate.”

One would only have to take the above course if they were a liberal arts major, or perhaps an English major with the emphasis on Multiculturalism. If he did not like the requirements he should have been another major.

Some universities are beginning to require one, 1, as in one multicultural class for graduation, but not 36 hours, that is a lie. 12 classes? I don’t believe it.

Hathor said...

The one thing about being in the South during Jim Crow, that it threw out illusions for the immigrant student. The Indian students were weren't able to move as easily about, outside the college environment. I guess that is why some belonged to the Black Student Union and participated in the civil rights movement. I think some had remembered their struggle for independence from the British. I think there aren't many that remember what it was like to live under colonialism. One reason Dinesh D'Souza name is Portuguese is that some Indians had changed their names to be more able to get work when the Portuguese were in charge. (this I was told by another Indian my age)Was there such a thing as House Indian?

Anonymous said...

Throughout history many immigrants have taken to the white ideal in order to make the American ideal a reality for them. So ideally the two are separate but realistically they are one in the same.

Race is a social issue that is used for political gain. Maybe thats what he meant. I'm not sure.

Words like lazy, savage and simian were used to describe Catholic Irish immigrants.

Irish people weren't white in this country until they became such a massive voting block and they embraced their whiteness that afforded them political rights and jobs.

Irish immigrants made up more immigrants than any other group for over 20 years leading up to 1850 but they adopted the "go back to Africa" mentality and were anti-Chinese in California too.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately, most immigrants by their nature will be problemactic for Black solidarity. I can only see possibilities for collaboration only with the the refugees. I explain more below.

An immigrant is not leaving even the most abysmal circumstance of third world countries to lead the wretched lives of those on Indian reservations or to become probable targets for street crime and police brutes, jail fodder, and America's whipping posts. Thus, immigrants come to America PRESUMING that they will step over--and--on---Native Americans for sure and many, if not all, African Americans.

(This is why I don't find the immigrant an innocent. There is racial calculation in the immigrant. The racial caste system of America is well known. Immigrants presume racial discrimination. Indeed, they expect to benefit from the racial status quo of America. The racial hierarchy, they presume, will insure that there is a floor; that they won't start on ground level; and will begin on rungs above many people. Thus, they contemplate their immigrant status providing them preferred status over many domestic minorities---US. That is, put another way, immigrants--even immigrants of color--presume and are, therefore, invested in the oppression of domestic minorities. Otherwise, they know the would be closed out of positions.

(Of course, their expectations are not always realized but they do have them--and this orientation alone makes them uncomfortable co-travellers for oppressed minorities. They never expected to be and don't want to be us.)

Related to being racial calculators, immigrants (not refugees) are prominently and by their nature selfish individualists. They are looking for good deals--mostly for themselves--sometimes for their families (or, so they claim.) They don't come to America to improve America--but to take from American improvements--improvements by the way African Americans assured. Thus, immigrants by their nature are exploiters. They are not here, for example, to insure that Native Americans receive just due for their land. Rather, they are invested in exploited the exploitation of the native clan. The same for African Americans.

Morevoer, by their nature, they are not communalists. Indeed, they are people who have overcome the need for traditional ties to community--by their very leaving. Moreover, for those that have some connection to community, they operate under a charge from their home communities to narrowly focus on lucrative paths just for themselves. They are not charged with coming to America to be humanitarians.

The nature of the immigrant is at odds with the nature of the African American. Though there may be problems of execution, African Americans are instill with a sense of community. Many of us might be able to get better deals abroad but most of us won't seek these. Most of us are going to fight this racial fight until the end--whether conservative or liberal--whether with varying strategies. We are not escapists.

This makes us fundamentally different from the immigrant--as I said---and also suspicious of them. Immigrants will combine with African Americans only when it is in their interests to do so--not necessarily out of core affection or true commitment. If a better deal becomes available, the immigrant--true to his/her nature, will break ranks.

The refugee, in contrast, can not be the calculating immigrant. She has been forced out--and many a refugee--in my experience and conversation--are waiting to return to their communities and their countries.

Anonymous said...

Oh, Field, if you must rest, rest. We must be mindful not to overtaz warriors. It is not uncommon to take a summer break--but you will be missed.

The Fabulous Kitty Glendower said...

Those are dangerous words there ravenravings. But I hear you. I know this is a complete prejudice, but talking about opportunistic and exploitation, I see so many field workers in big trucks and SUVs that I just want to explode. I am not saying Americans have a right to drive SUVs and big trucks but I am saying it is expected knowing how selfish and opportunistic many Americans are. SUVS and big trucks are my pet peeve. To me it is a symbol of greed, over consumption, and blatant indifference to the planet and people on the planet. How big and intrusive an SUV and big truck is pisses me off from the giddy up. It is as if the first thing the immigrant buys after making a few dollars is the worse things they can buy. Or at least the worse in my opinion. I talked this out to a friend I could trust one time and I learned that I expected a more caring, purer motive from immigrants. Why I expected that, I don’t know.

Forgiven said...

RavenRavings said...

Unfortunately, most immigrants by their nature will be problemactic for Black solidarity. I can only see possibilities for collaboration only with the the refugees. I explain more below.

I for one find it fascinating how those things we despise in others we someday become. I know for myself I use to say as a child I would never treat my children this way in response to some perceived slight of my father. Well, a few years later and a couple of kids and guess what. I say that to say, that we as people can sometimes make the same mistakes we find fault with in others, it isn’t that we are bad, we are just human and it is a part of our nature to do so.

Do you have any proof of these charges besides your personal opinion or this just more blog rhetoric to inflame?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

The Disputed Truth

Christopher Chambers said...

First, there was a molecule here and there of truth. You have to admit that, FN.

Beyond that--isn't it funny how the most prolific bullshitters like this--Malkin et al--are minoritiesd themselves, yet from Asia or the subcontinent? Hmmm. Could it be they are merely, like our black youth with hip hop and this blig culture, getting the cartoon version of America and race when their parents come here? I see no other explanation, as even with turds like Hannity, Limbaigh, Beck, you discern a little glimmer of cynical self promo, tongue in cheek. Yes they are loons, but people like Malkin and these Indians, the Chinese dude who wrote the piece in the Bay Area about really have to wonder where their heads are at.

It cant be just an immgrant thing, because even the most jaded West Indian or African doesn't have a stick this far up his/her ass on race in America. Nor do most latinos. Hell, they are pretty much consumed in the doing of their own community and never, unless you count Linda Chavez or Alberto, lower themselves to this level.

Cynthia said...

Asians are the new (fill in the blank) and some of them will do anything to please their masters.

Anonymous said...

Forgiven & Cynthia,

First, Cynthia, I really think this Asian love thing should really be explored. How I see it much of their perceived prowess is in their ability to self-employ. I wonder about their true integration. Many Americans are still very suspicious of them (despite the presence of the chinese for over a 100 years.)


I hope to not blogsh*t. Also, my goal is not to offend--or to divide--although I realize that I am risking that. Talk back, Forgiven. I don't perceive myself as replicating patterns--just working from observation, study, conversations and inferences drawn therefrom. (I probably can find the most recent study I've seen discussing this but I don't want to go a looking for it.)

I realize that pro-non-Mexican immigrant propaganda dominates and, therefore, comments questioning this is jolting. We don't hear the other side often enough. Of course, there is white investment in pro-non-Mexican immigrant propaganda in this country. (However, the immigrant is not celebrated everywhere. Some of the press on American & British expatriates expose the American lie of the always-benevolent immigrant. The presence of those immigrants are easily seen as exploitive.) Pro-non-Mexican immigrant propaganda, legitimizes white presence. The proganda also prevails because we non-immigrating national minorities (Natives, Native Chicanos & non-immigrating Africans) are too polite to comment negatively. Forgiven, indeed, African Americans typically don't pass the hurt along. See, for example, the presence of the Korean store owners in black neighborhoods in L.A. During the L.A. riot and perhaps even now they are viewed with enormous sympathy--vis a vis black folks. They are presented as innoccent, non-race folks. But are they? How can they be? Korean shop owner must ask himself how is it that you are owning a store in the middle of the balck community. How is it that you don't appear to have as easy access--especially initially--in white communities. There are only two answers that can be offered it seems to me--both racial? Blacks are just stupid and can't run a simple corner store--or Blacks are not being extended sufficient opportunity.

I think that has to be the mindset of most immigrants--Carribean and African as well.

I've gone on too long. Enough said.

DJ said...

Well said, RavenRavings.

I think another problem may be the same as often comes from white people: ignorance.

For many white people, they live in neighborhoods with maybe one black guy, and never get to see racism first hand. As a result they see the civil rights movement as a time that has passed and is no longer needed, not thinking that there's a reason why their neighborhood is filled with people who mostly look like them.

As a foreigner, he doesn't understand the experience of 400 years of stupidity and bigotry that have gone on in America. He hasn't experienced it for himself. Or if he does, he equates it with being a foreigner and not as an Indian.

So in his case, ignorance is bliss, and he's happy for it.

Anonymous said...

ravenravings, you make some interesting points, but as one of those immigrants I can honestly say that not everyone of us have a different agenda than our Af. Am. brothers and sisters.

"Most of us are going to fight this racial fight until the end--whether conservative or liberal--whether with varying strategies. We are not escapists."

I am in that number. And I know of many more JameRicans who think like I do. I consider myself a world citizen, so I have no problem whatsoever relating to any black man's struggle anywhere in the world, including America.

My father came to this country, got his education, and went back to his homeland. When he left Michigan State University lettered up to the nine, he could have taken one of many jobs and never looked back on his island home. But He chose to go home and help build his country and work with like minded natives. Many of the expatriates in this country eventually end up doing just what my dad did.- going to the country of their birth to build from within.

In the seventies when the middle class was fleeing Michael Manley's socialist Jamaica in droves, pops always said that he will "turn the lights out because he will be the last to leave".

Yes there are many immigrants who come to this country to take what it has to offer and no more. And to be honest, I can't blame all of those people. When you come from a Third World country that had its resources stripped and plundered by colonial powers like America,(Bauxite for four cents a ton) IMHO if you take something back from said country, so be it. My problem is with that immigrant that I talked about who not only takes from this country, but who feels a need to seperate himself from those who look like him to get into "the man's" good graces. Take what America has, but don't lose sight of who you are. This is my problems with Malkin, Innis,and their ilk. Sell outs all who would rather buy into a regressive philosophy. But most immigrants by their nature will NOT be problamatic for black solidarity. The last time I checked, Garvey was an immigrant, and he was all about black folks uniting.

More of my brothers and sisters who were born in America need to start looking at themselves more as world citizens than as ONLY Americans. Work hard to build up this country and to bring equallity to it, but don't ever forget that you are part of a larger family.

chris, you are right, home boy did make a couple of good points. But hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day.


Anonymous said...

BTW ravenrvings, thanks for your concerns about my burnout.I am close, but not there yet. There is too much sh** happening out here now. I think I found new life.

Still, I have been really busy (three hours of sleep a day gets old after awhile) maybe a little more cutting and pasting, and maybe a post every three days instead of two. But I ain't going anywhere. So I hope the house Negroes don't get too comfortable just yet ;)

west coast story said...

Field: great post. I would add that black people need to stop seeing themselves as only black Americans. Black people have this quaint notion that we are above the mainstream fray when in fact we buy into the same racist bullshit as white folks do. I guess we are glad to see someone else getting whipped so we can't wait to get in our licks too. Sometimes I can't believe the stupid s**t I hear black people saying about Muslims and Arabs. Embarrassing.

Asians are not interested in satisfying anybody's master. First, it would be good to recognize that there is a such a thing as cultural differences. I had a Filipina employee who flat out said it was her job to serve. As a woman, I wanted to shake her but that's how she believes.

In San Francisco, which has the largest Chinese population outside of China, Chinese folks kick white people's ass everyday and twice on Sunday. usually in a nice way, but sometimes it gets a little ugly. Very politically saavy and don't take prisoners.

Finally, I live in a community that has a large Latino population. Many undocumented workers. I can say that they don't bother me one bit. It is after all, brown, not black, folks who line up on the street corners every day looking for work. Who work in 100 degree heat picking produce. I am amazed by people who come here with nothing, don't speak the language, don't quite get the culture, but manage to thrive. Maybe there's something to be learned from people who immigrate to this country. They teach me every day.

west coast story said...

Also, I don't care if people come to the US to exploit what we have and take it back home. We have so much that we can afford to share it.

Cynthia said...

Sometimes, I think things are obvious, but I often find, that Black people don’t appear to see all that is going on. Or maybe, we all just have different experiences when watching the interaction of Asians and Whites. When Asians come here, they are given access to the Black community. Every group except other Black groups, are given the same opportunities. The problem I have is this; we don't have to buy from anyone who has been designated to only make money from us (shame on us for allowing ourselves to be used). As far as Asians pleasing their White masters, they go out of their way to do this. I see this all the time.

I guess I don’t see how immigrants will save Western Civilization, because what I see is that White people only allow immigrants to do what they want them to do and nothing more. In many cases, that mean the exploitation of Black people is fair game. But, other than this, if you talk to Asians, they will tell you about the glass ceiling that has been imposed upon them too.

Btw Westcoast, the way Whites and Asians marry, I don’t think the mistrust is there like you think it is.

I've heard and seen things from Asians and by others, that if this wasn't the internet, I would disclose more.

Anonymous said...

"I find it particularly troubling. I can't for the life of me understand why people of color who were born in places like India, or Jamaica, or Africa, not understand that their African American brothers struggle is their struggle."

People care about themselves that's why. It's as simple as that, your struggle isn't mine because you don't pay my bills, and vice versa. Whether it's right or wrong, shit who knows?

The truth is we are all getting fucked, white, black, red, yellow, green it doesn't matter. Wealth is what matters.

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, I'm no fool. My ex-girlfriend was a Miwok Indian. We were talking about it one night and I mentioned I'd never really heard of Miwoks. She said, "No one has, almost all of us are dead." That fucks me up to this day when I think about it.

I'm not sharing that story to alleviate any of my "white guilt", I don't have time for that bullshit. Nor am I attempting to portray myself as some "good hearted, racially diverse Liberal". Fuck liberals. What have they ever done for me? I worked as a counselor for almost the entire time when Clinton was President, I got two raises in six years, but Social Services got six budget cuts during that same time. "Liberals" my ass.

I'm sharing it because although I can't imagine what racism is like, I do know what pain is, and I do know what it means to suffer. My skin color doesn't protect me from that anymore than it protects me from the sun.

rikyrah said...


Stop Leslie Soutwick

Some of his judicial 'wisdom':

The current nominee, Leslie Southwick, in his former capacity as a Court of Appeals Judge, affirmed the judgement of the state employee appeals board to re-instate a white female state employee who called a black female co-worker a “good ole nigger.” The racist rationale is that this behavior is somehow not serious enough to warrant immediate termination.

This is just Limbaugh in a judicial robe, people.

Time to contact your Senator and any others on the Judiciary Committee.

Anonymous said...

I apologize if my first comment seems disjointed. I was commenting on two of your posts ("Kossacks and Black People" as well) at once, it was late and I was exhausted.

Your posts stirred passion in my heart, but my mind was not having it.

If Michelle Malkin didn't look the way she does, she'd be working in a restaurant. Pseudo-Intellectual twaddle.

I always thought minority Reps were like that Dave Chappelle skit where he played a Klan member.

But then again the Reps are only filling the role once held by Democrats with their race baiting, and the parade of Assimilated Minorities.

Sleeperwithheavyeyes said...

Television and other forms of media say that the racial struggle is over and that is a pleasant fiction. If I were from somewhere else, and I was treated well, I would want to believe that everything was fair and that if people aren't successful its because they don't want to be. It is an emotionally gratifying lie. It's harder to accept the ugly truth about our society, especially if you immigrated from another coutry to the U.S. for the dream of living in a free and just nation. Self delusion is a way of protecting oneself from an ugly truth, and thats why I think a number of first generation immigrants ignore racial injustice.

west coast story said...

Asians are not given access to the black community. They see a market and serve it. In my neighborhood, there are Latino and Asian bodegas because I live in a heavily Latino neighborhood (but because it's Oakland, there are lots of everybody else as well). Many Asian shops of any sort in my 'hood have little signs in the window that say "Se Habla Espanol." It's smart business. For reasons I've never quite understand, black people have the idea that we can only serve the black community. Asians own the nail shop market, the doughnut market, the clothers cleaning market, and the beauty supply market. Asians learned what kind of products black women use and they include those products in their shops. When I go to my neighborhood beauty supply house, I'm greeted with a big smile and asked if they can help me find what I want. There's no reason on god's earth that black people can't open up businesses that cater to a variety of cultures. Asians, particularly Chinese and Koreans, pool their money to buy businesses and property. They aren't real big on bling. There are major cultural differences at work.

As for Asians serving whites, I only know what I see where I live and work and it's nothing like what you have described at all. Asians are a political powerhouse in SF and even in Oakland Asians wield a lot of clout, but more quietly than in SF because the power structure is different. In Oakland, the annual Asian summer celebration includes lion dancers and steppers from West Oakland.

I recall my Vietnamese mechanic on Malcolm X's birthday went on a tear about how white people drove him nuts after he reminded black me (who had indeed forgotten) whose birthday it was that day.

Finally this. Earlier this year, Asian Weekly, a SF paper, came out with a story about blacks that was ugly and horribly racist. It was from the Asian community where the first howls, and I mean howls, of outrage came. Many Asians were embarrassed that the story was published in an Asians publication and that no one caught it. The writer was fired. If this had been a white paper, well, you know that drill. There was not one ridiculous claim of freedom of speech by Asians when this story came out. The immediate response was an apology and get rid of the writer.

One other thing. When 9-11 occurred and a big anti Arab/Muslim backlash developed, members of the Japanese-American community very quietly began to move about the Bay Area meeting with churches and other groups to quell this backlash. Why? Because they said they never wanted to see happen to Arabs/Muslums what happened to them during WWII.

As for Chinese in SF, I like to think they didn't get mad, they got even for how they were treated in this area in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Now they own a large part of this area.

Forgiven said...

west coast story said...As for Chinese in SF, I like to think they didn't get mad, they got even for how they were treated in this area in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Now they own a large part of this area.

How the Asians have made it is by having unity as a group. They don't trust anyone not in their group. They have stuck together and not allowed outside influences to derail their strategies for success. They don't sit around spending hours discussing why the white man don't like them, or let them marry his daughter, or any of the other insanity we worry about, instead they stick to themselves and don't care what the white man thinks or does. They go on about their business. They have found a niche that should be ours. The inner city stores, where Wal-Mart will not tread, because of the high cost of doing business in the "hood". Are they sympathetic to the Black man's plight? No, they have no reason to be.

Cynthia said...
As far as Asians pleasing their White masters, they go out of their way to do this. I see this all the time.

I think what we have here is a failure to communicate...A lot of Black Americans do not understand eastern culture. In eastern culture it is an honor for one to be submissive. It is their custom, what we would see as being subservient they don't see that way. They will smile and nod and the whole time they are plotting their strategy to take over something or someplace. Make no mistake about it the Asians have not forgotten about WWII and how they were used as guinea pigs. We live in a confrontational culture where everything is about pride and emotions...Can't nobody tell me nothing! or You can't talk to me like that! Next thing you know there's a dead body to pick up...maybe we should be more like the Asians?

The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic - John F. Kennedy

The Disputed Truth

Anonymous said...

West Coast,

I know the propaganda of Asian Americans as the genius tribe but I personally find it implausible that Asian Americans can figure out where to place their beauty supply store in areas of the city whites fear to tread in cities such as Detroit and Pittsburgh, etc.--straight from Korea, without even decent English. (Even McDonald's sometimes miscalculates business locations and go out of business.) Assistance is being provided to these businesses in terms of locations and products. This is not something that people just intuit. (Of course, the initial inventory can be expanded with customere suggestions.) I have never seen an Asian survey a physical area, conduct customer surveys, or anything. I don't believe it. I have asked reporters to investigate the financing of these businesses, and how they come to exist in the African American communities, but all the reporters I have talked with have refused to do so. They rather promote the lore that you do. I dare say there just could not exist such a curiously springing string of African American businesses without so many of them being exhaustively and continuously scrutinized.

west coast story said...

Forgiven: I agree with much of what you say but I would argue that Chinese people see themselves as a minority and in that regard, share some of the same issues with black people. The whole Asian Weekly debacle was a fascinting lesson for me. Black leaders in SF made official comments and all that but not much was needed because Asians really raised the majority of hell about what had happened and they were genuinely embarrassed by the article.

My personal experience runs the range with Asians who prefer to distance themselves from black people and those who do not. I know black people who aren't too wild about hanging with other black folks either. :)

When we were demonstrating at college about affirmative action back when, the Asian students were part of the team. It's different now, lol. If only the most qualified people got into college today, it would be 99% Asian and while Asians don't make a big deal about getting screwed by an admissions process that has to insure that less qualified whites get their considerable share of slots, everybody knows what time it is on this issue. Asians aren't smarter than the rest of us, many more Asians embrace academic excellence in a way that blacks, whites, and Latinos do not. Maybe it's just cultural. Go to any library and check out who is in there on a Sunday afternoon.

west coast story said...

raven: All due respect but I honestly don't think you have a clue about which you speak. there is no Asian conspiracy, no yellow hoarde. It is well known how many Asians start businesses. They go to the Bank of Hong Kong with a couple friends or family members and get a loan. Or they use a process in the Korean and Chinese commuities where people pool money to help others start businesses. It takes trust but it seems to work. This was widely reported on in the aftermath of the Rodney King riots when blacks wanted to know how and why so many Koreans could open businesses in LA. The last way is that some Asians come to this country with their own resources and start businesses. Or, they drop out of the professional rat race and start a business. Commerce is a big deal to Asians. To blacks, the big deal is consumerism, it's very American.

The other thing is that for Asians, a business is a family enterprise. Kids don't get to lay around watching TV all day, play video games, or hang out on street corners. They are expected to work in the business. It's a source of cheap labor from people that can be trusted.

Part of why blacks can't come together to do these things is because we don't trust each other, rightfully or wrongfully so, but we don't.

And Field, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't some of the same things hold true for West Indians (and I hope this isn't considered a pejorative term for people from the Caribbean? I know that Nigerians are very clanish about helping out each other out--clanish in a good way. So it's not about being black. It's about being black and American.

Forgiven said...


I understand what you are saying and the reason I stated that, is as a whole they don't identify with Black Americans for the same reason most immigrants black or any other color do not...rightly or wrongly they think that Blacks in America are lazy and are looking for a handout. The reason there are so many Asian stores in the black community is because they have found a formula that works. They have been doing this for years. They know that blacks are more concerned with style than do my nails look, how about my doesn't take a marketing genius to figure out how to make money in the "hood", nor does it take a conspiracy...liquor stores, nails, beauty supply and wigs, and fast food...there's your conspiracy raven...

Until we begin to understand the keys and rules to success we will continue to look for conspiracies instead of doing the work...It should be an embarrassment to us that other groups can come here and succeed in our neighborhoods selling us this crap...hell, we could sell this crap to ourselves???

Cynthia said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Cynthia said...

Forgiven: I would say you have a point, but this honor as you put it, is not accorded to all people equally. Asians are not submissive to Blacks. They do not show us the same courtesy. I've even talked to some Africans, who tell stories of how Asians treat them in Africa. We can try and justify peoples behavior, but we really should analyze it for what it is.

Forgiven said...

I don't have a problem looking at other people's behavior and I would never try to justify another's behavior, it is for each one to justify their own existence. My point is simply that not everyone shares the same culture and what is considered taboo in one may not be in another. In Korea, it is considered impolite to smile at people you don't know...

Anonymous said...

"And Field, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't some of the same things hold true for West Indians..."

Unfortunately, you are not wrong.
Although I see signs of it getting better with the younger generation. But for years "West Indians" (that term is cool)would come to this country and klan up only with other West Indians. I have peeps in New York, and when they talk the patoi is still deeper than when they were back on the Rock.

So in a way, I understand the phenomenon of which you speak.
Still, it bothers me, we should be coming together with other people of color. And especially Af Am brothers and sisters.

Anonymous said...

First, as an aside, i have not seen any group more materialistic than Asians--not just in America, but worldwide. If you ever travel abroad and visit any of the highend shopping districts--Rome, Milan, Paris, etc., they teem with Asian tourists. Where I live, Asians--typcally poorer 1st and 2d generation immigrants out-Gold and out-big-screen TV blacks by leaps and bounds. They know labels. They regard designers. they are obsessed with cosmetic surgeries and appearances otherwise. Thus, this attempt to contrast Asians so positively to Blacks in regard to materialism and consumerism is just too much stereotype. (Indeed, I recall just even seeing a survey that proved this. Asians buy more of a huge set of luxury items. I think the only one of these items that black bought more of was Courvosier.)

And so I find so much of West Coast's response folklore--of course dependent on negative stereotypes about black people and positive ones about anybody else.

I understand about the pooling of resources and micro-lending----and also the 7-year tax holiday and 0-interest government loans to the Asian immigrant communities with which I am familiar (though the recent African immigrant communities with which I work have not been extended these benefits.) And these loans are big deals. Under certain conditions, they don't even have to be paid.

But money is not my real issue--or what I find most curious about the Asian communities in Black communities (although--as an aside--I find that stuff about Hong Kong banks lending Koreans money to open nail shops crazy talk.)

What I find most curious is the other issue central to business success--location, location, location.

This is what I find much more curious--the ability of the otherwise unacclimated recent immigrant Asian to pinpoint a corner in the deep interior of the African American community that may not even be known to some of the Black residents of the city. No, that's not plausible. I never said an "Asian conspiracy" (although talk of banks and money groups does sound conspiratorial.) I don't know all abut this. But I don't believe the typical, stereotype-dependent reasons---Smart, Money-Saving Asians, Dumb, Consumer Blacks.

My suspicion is that it might be government instruction, maybe the Small Business Admistration might give primers about where to locate businesses. (I imagine that the SBA wouldn't want to extend the 0-interest loans with offering direction.) But, I admit I don't know the source but it is curious on its face.

It is all the more curious because I don't find black minorities striking ethnic community gold as well. The business decisions of Jamaicans and Africans strike me as obvious--or at least I can understand the path towards their businesses. They tend too open up businesses that--while serving perhaps African Americans--are typically based on things that are connected to their culture or available in their culture--or, are obvious in America culture.

Forgiven said...

RavenRavings said...

I never said an "Asian conspiracy" (although talk of banks and money groups does sound conspiratorial.) I don't know all abut this. But I don't believe the typical, stereotype-dependent reasons---Smart, Money-Saving Asians, Dumb, Consumer Blacks.

My suspicion is that it might be government instruction, maybe the Small Business Admistration might give primers about where to locate businesses. (I imagine that the SBA wouldn't want to extend the 0-interest loans with offering direction.) But, I admit I don't know the source but it is curious on its face.

Ok, you can't have it both ways. You say you didn't talk conspiracy, but you suspect a conspiracy? Also, You spout all these figures and studies, but you never reference any in your posts? I don't want to hear what you heard, I want to hear what you know, what can you prove. Because without that all you are doing is spreading stereotypes and propaganda...

Hathor said...

Indians are brought over on special visas to fill the so called void in the technical workforce. I am concerned about this immigration because there are plenty of qualified IT and engineers out of work in America. So now a black person who would now be able to fill those positions and create another niche toward economic advancement is eased out. This affects most efforts to retrain blacks whose traditional jobs are disappearing.
I do think some Chinese and Korean immigrants have sponsors that have already set up a business for them to work once they get here. It must someone with a lot of political clout or ability to influence with money, because when blacks have challenged the zoning laws of the business that sell fortified beer and drug paraphernalia, like being to close to a school, they lose.

Anonymous said...


I must run and won't be around for days. I don't have time to hunt down the consumer spending survey I saw tha tmentioned both black cognac consumption and asian consumption. I did stumble a U.S. department of Labor consumer spending survey--broken down by a few races, Asian, whites and blacks. I am no statistician but it seems to me what I am seeing from this is that Asians spend more on clothes and cars than blacks do.

Woozie said...

Well he did have one good point. People shouldn't be forced into taking classes against their will, especially when they're paying for it out of their own pocket.

Hathor said...

FN, I had posted a comment similar to this earlier, but somehow got deleted. It might have to do with my account. Anyway this morning I notice an increase in traffic from this blog. Then when I came to visit I saw my name in the sidebar. I just wanted to thank you for being featured.

Anonymous said...

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