There are times when that little "N" word can get us in all kinds of trouble. My good friend Brown Dartanyan got me to dig out my racism track shoes when he sent me the following story from down the road in Maryland:
"Towson University promptly fired an adjunct art professor after he characterized himself as "a nigger on the corporate plantation" in a classroom discussion last week.
Allen Zaruba, a professional artist who has taught at Towson for 12 years, used the racially charged term to describe his employment rights as an adjunct professor during a broader discussion of representations of power in contemporary art. A student reported him to the provost's office after the lecture, delivered on Monday, February 22, and that Thursday, the art department's interim chairman, Stuart Stein, told him over the telephone he had been dismissed.
In an interview on Tuesday, Mr. Zaruba said he deeply regretted using the phrase as soon as he had uttered it, and had apologized to his students when their class met last Wednesday. At the same time, however, he also said the university's decision to dismiss him without a formal hearing illustrated the broader point he was trying to make, about his status as someone who has few workplace rights and can easily be fired.
"I just finished talking to a lawyer," he said. "I have no ability to appeal anything." [Story]
Yes Allen, I am not sure how much rights you have as an adjunct prof. That's why some folks will literally kill for tenure.
"A nigger on a plantation" huh? Hey, I feel you Allen, I think quite a few of us in A-merry-ca are feeling like "A nigger on a plantation" these days. But we don't just go telling that to a class full of students; even if they are in college.
But you know what I like about Allen? He regretted using the phrase as soon as he "uttered" it....As opposed to when, Allen? As soon as you thought it? Let me stop.
I am going to surprise some of you: If old Allen is a good teacher and his students (black and white ) want him to stay; I say let him stay.
Hey, it's not like lots of people we encounter in the majority population -present company excluded of course- every day don't have that word right at the tip of their tongues. (Watch FOX NEWS one evening between 5-10) So Allen slipped, it happens every now and then.
And let me preempt all the e-mails and comments I will get from the you say it so why can't we crowd right now. Yes, we say it among each other, but no, you cannot. Well, you can say it among yourselves, just don't say it in public; or, god forbid, around us.
Good luck Allen, I hope you land on your feet. Maybe FOX NEWS can use an in- house artist.
266 comments:
1 – 200 of 266 Newer› Newest»Too bad the conversation was about what he said and not the ability of the university being able to fire him without a hearing. Yet another example of why Unions need to exist. If there had been a Union for adjunct professors, he still may have been fired, but he would have had the right to dispute it and he could have negotiated a severance package.
I'm feeling Allen. But you can't complain aloud about work while AT WORK. You save it for family and friends.
The first thing I thought he was using the statement the same as The Student as Nigger.
Gotta watch the language...no matter the context!
valjoyner,
I had an adjunct professor tell our night class she could make as much, working at WalMart, letting us know it wasn't the money for why she was teaching. I guess she felt rather safe speaking to adults, who were getting their degrees hoping to get off their plantations.
It's about time they started cracking down on Blacks for using that filthy word. Whites were banned from using the N-word a long time ago. And Blacks think they have a right to say it?
That's baloney. Blacks are no better than anyone else in America. Follow the rules folks.
I feel for this guy. The larger point of the story is that if you are not tenured-or worse yet, an adjunct-you truly are a nigger on the plantation-regardless of the color of your skin.
Hathor,
You are right on the money. College adjuncts are paid next to nothing. It goes to show you how much America values its educators.
[quote]I think quite a few of us in A-merry-ca are feeling like "A nigger on a plantation" these days. But we don't just go telling that to a class full of students; even if they are in college.[/quote]
THESE DAYS, Filled Negro?
What are you talking about? I still have HOPE that things will CHANGE. Yee of little faith.
Then again after listening to your boy Farrahkan as reported on "Radio Rwanda" I was made afraid. Farrahkan said that the "White Right" had it in to kill the man.
Had the teacher in question simply put the "N-word" into a HIP HOP SONG and then said that he was making an ARTISTIC EXPRESSION - he would have been fine. Indeed when Young Jeezy says the very same word in a packed Philip's Arena - right after Jay-Z leaves the stage then, doggonit this professor should be similarly spared.
I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he was just an idiot trying to be hip and cool with his younger student crowd.
Still doesn't excuse it, though.
I just looked up this teacher. He's white and supposedly had a black stepfather. Did he feel that entitled him to use the N-Word? I'm glad he got fired. He wanted to be a N**er and so the university treated him as one. SMH.
@FN:
O/T: Re your sidebar on Jarome Iginla.
He's an amazing athlete, with a really consistent scoring record and a genuinely sweet guy. His major "drawback" the old guard sports commentators highlight is that he isn't aggressive enough and doesn't like to fight & mix it up..... a sin for a hockey player!
Face+palm.
He should've known that the word is so charged that you can never use it in any mainstream job without serious consequences (using it in context of academic discussions of the word/the history of racism like a lecture on the term itself being an exception to the rule).
As for rappers/hip hop stars... Rappers can use it as rappers but if the same guy was working on Wall Street even he couldn't use it at work without serious fallout.
--j
What up Field! My first thought when I read your post was why didn't he think to say that he was a ""slave" on a corporate plantation" rather than characterize himself by the N word.
I suspect that maybe he was trying to say that his situation was actually was worse than slavery more like the kind of slavery that black folks went through in the Americas (chattel slavery). Maybe he was really really trying to emphasize his point.
I agree Field I don't think he should have been fired. I think it was a teachable moment.He should have been able to apologize. I think the school used the incident to get rid of a malcontent who learly was having a hard time bucking up.
He and the class could have explored why he used the N word rather than slave. I think they may have learned somethings about the power of words and the sreality of race in North America.
And BTW I want to thank AB for that link to Paula Patton. She is my Field Negro of the Day/Week/Month.
Ya'll check this sister out:
"I find (the term) biracial offensive, it’s a way for people to separate themselves from African-Americans, a way of saying I’m better than that. I’m Black because that’s the way the worlds sees me. People aren’t calling Obama biracial. Most people
think there’s a Black president."
I am so glad she said this because some of the craziest people I have run into were black folks who were half black and half white, but tried to call themselves bi-racial. They seemed so unadjusted and I always suspected that the truth really was that they didn't really want to be seen as Black.
Field what do you think can we get this sister up as Field Negro of the Day?
CF,
Young Jeezy isn't teaching a class of impressionable young students.
Are you suggesting that because the word "nigger" is used regularly in popular culture by whites and blacks that its okay to use it in the workplace or classrooms?
What the heck would you do if a white VP at your company used the word in your presence?
"Dat's alright massa. Young Jeezy said it on his record"?
The professor should have been taken to the woodshed, schooled, and allowed to apologize.
But not fired.
The sentiment was correct, his words were ill-thought.
CF-"Had the teacher in question simply put the "N-word" into a HIP HOP SONG and then said that he was making an ARTISTIC EXPRESSION - he would have been fine. Indeed when Young Jeezy says the very same word in a packed Philip's Arena - right after Jay-Z leaves the stage then, doggonit this professor should be similarly spared."
Yeah! This is what Field and his followers on this blog need to get through their heads. Unfortuantely, they are deaf. Your important message seems to echo through empty heads.
In the end, it will be said, "what a shame. if only they had listened."
"He's white and supposedly had a black stepfather. Did he feel that entitled him to use the N-Word?"
He's guilty of bad judgment, but I'm sure the lecture was interesting.
Obviously too "artistic" for his own good.
Well, I definitely feel where the man is coming from. And I would have accepted his analogy had he used "slave" or even "Negro". No matter how "down" one seems, one should never overstep ones boundaries.
For example, no matter how much of a fag hag I am, I know better than to call gay men "faggies." That is, of course, unless I want a beat-down.
lol
L
Allen is screwed. After this incident, he'll never work again in academia.
CF, do you get tired of jigging or is it just what you like to do?
Anyway, I'm not even shocked. A guy has done a nose dive into an IRS building, a retarded bimbo is the face of a "revolution", people are still sending white powder in the mail, and one senator held up people getting their unemployment check. This guy would have to come a lot harder to make a nigga shocked by a white person saying nigger. Oops, did I type that? Guess gangsta rap made me do it....
@ FN:
"...he characterized himself as "a nigger on the corporate plantation" in a classroom discussion last week."
:-O
___________________________________
"I just finished talking to a lawyer," he said. "I have no ability to appeal anything."
:-O
___________________________________
"Yes Allen, I am not sure how much rights you have as an adjunct prof. That's why some folks will literally kill for tenure."
Funnah!
___________________________________
"A nigger on a plantation" huh? Hey, I feel you Allen, I think quite a few of us in A-merry-ca are feeling like "A nigger on a plantation" these days. But we don't just go telling that to a class full of students; even if they are in college."
Well...
___________________________________
(Watch FOX NEWS one evening between 5-10)
Now you takin' it too far...:)
____________________________________
Maybe FOX NEWS can use an in- house artist.
Yeah...it's tough out here in the Field ;)
Great Post! Thanks for the laugh :)
Peace.
~agape2010~
@ CF:
"Had the teacher in question simply put the "N-word" into a HIP HOP SONG and then said that he was making an ARTISTIC EXPRESSION - he would have been fine. Indeed when Young Jeezy says the very same word in a packed Philip's Arena - right after Jay-Z leaves the stage then, doggonit this professor should be similarly spared."
You know better! People who pay to see an artist that uses "The N Word" KNOW that word is going to be said, and yet they pay (I love me some JayZ :)
And...
I am not going to get into a diatribe about white professors using "The N Word" in a classrooom setting...
And....
I don't give a rat's butt what book it's in :)
(Phillips Arena, huh?)
Peace.
~agape2010~
@ marie:
Please read what I posted to that annon person. And on his/her behalf I apologize for his/her showing of ignorance on Christianity. Thank you.
And...
Two parents of the same party politics, huh? No wonder your a dem :) (just jokes)
Peace.
~agape2010~
That's baloney. Blacks are no better than anyone else in America. Follow the rules folks.
i think this was a white prof, no? anyways, the rules were made by us (blacks) and we choose who gets to say it = only blacks. we have reclaimed the word.
Now I do think there should be intellectualization of the word, like what does this mean to you? But he should have asked the students if it made them feel uncomfortable. I taught a lit class on "white trash" (i used to teach lit in college and im black) and i made sure it didnt offend anyone...but we also read a essay about it. I think it the term needs to be looked at through that prism before you can discuss it in class. You can't use the word intellectually through satire or irony. Look what happened to John Mayer... and i wrote a blog about that one.
@mellaneous people have the right to say they are biracial. why must you make them CHOOSE a race when they really want to be part of both, which they ARE. Does it offend you if they choose white instead of black? Not everyone has to fit into your category... ESP when a lot of blacks and whites wouldn't want to claim them...and there are some who won't.
Here's a thought experiment: if declaring yourself biracial is opting out of blackness then what of folks who discover their ancestry and decide to opt-in and honor their black ancestry? Personally, I've heard mixed reviews of this (pun intended :D) so I'm curious as to what field hands think. Should folks who discover the truth stay white? Should they reclaim their blackness in some way and if so how? What are the limits and why?
--j
Should folks who discover the truth stay white? Should they reclaim their blackness in some way and if so how? What are the limits and why?
Allot of this comes down to looks: If you don't look black, you can't reclaim your blackness.
Hearthesiren:
Slow down its not a personal thing none of them are my "category." I understand that race is a social construct. At bottom we are all human beings and this race crap just allows the ruling class to divide and rule.
I really don't care what folks choose to call themselves. Don't misunderstand my point its not a bias against anyone. I threw it out there for discussion. And no I am not offended by what folks choose call themselves, and folks can call themselves anything they want, but I reserve the right to have an opinion.
I was trying to express my opinion that I think it is unhealthy in a society in which if a person claims to be biracial when he/sh
e has black blood in them and looks black and he/she is thought of as black by people they encounter. i.e. the racist will treat them according to how they look. Yet you choose to label yourself something that is not consistent with how you are viewed in your day to day reality.
And I suspect again from my experiences that many of these folks are trying to run away from their reality and some really just don't want to be black. Which on some level is perfectly understandable considering the hell black folks catch.
As I said this is anecdotal. I have known and still know and have friends who are technically half black and half white. From my observance the ones who say they are black and operate in the world as black folks have the least difficulty maneuvering and are the healthiest.
But the few who have tried to hold on to the idea that they are biracial in their everyday functioning, to put it frankly sometimes seemed crazy as hell. In some ways its another way of "passing."
Is it possible you can give your commentary on this incident? I'd like to know what you think?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100304/ap_on_re_us/us_black_history_suspensions#mwpphu-container
@anon 1.39 -- If it comes down to looks then wouldn't that eliminate a whole lot of black people, some who come from two black parents, from being black?
Color certainly matters on some things (no DWB's for those who can pass and overt racism by strangers is virtually non-existent) but people who are known to have black ancestry but can pass are treated black by a LOT of whites the moment their ancestry is known.
--j
"i think this was a white prof, no? anyways, the rules were made by us (blacks) and we choose who gets to say it = only blacks. we have reclaimed the word."
I don't know where you got that from because a lot of Blacks DID NOT choose that word. In fact, many of us fought to get rid of that word. I am one of them.
If it comes down to looks then wouldn't that eliminate a whole lot of black people, some who come from two black parents, from being black?
A whole lot of black people? Most black folks look black-even the light skinnded ones. For the few who don't, they become passers, if they choose.
@Mellaneous:
In your opinion, at what point does it cease to matter?
I'm not going to lie and say when I first meet someone, their skin color isn't a distinguishing feature. It is. So is their height, weight, etc.
But when I first meet someone and size them up, it's their body language, and for me, their smile that I judge. Some people you just want to hug immediately, because they have this vibe of goodness, others are beyond scary and you want to run away. That's not a quality that's melanin-dependent.
400 years after the European founding of this country, aren't we all pretty much mongrels? Apparently, my ancestors like to have sex with people who are just loaded up with recessive genes -- the translucent see through skin, blue eyes, red hair. Studmuffin -- not so much. I guess his crew got out more.
When my daughter was in 2nd grade, there was a big discussion in school about "heritage" and the kids had to do a poster on their "heritage".
So she came home from school and asked Studmuffin "what" she was.
He told her she was a Heinz 57.
So, just sayin, all these racial purity litmus tests get under my skin -- pun intended.
Sorry. Typo. That's a quality that's NOT melanin-dependent.
Too much Merlot this evening.
PWI is never a good thing.
They're not going to be "reclaiming" any blackness until they think they have a stake in r-e-p-a-r-a-t-i-o-n-s. Then we're gonna have to do like the cherokees and start kicking people out.
Karen
If it was up to me there would be no such thing as black or white we would find more or other useful ways to identify one another.
Race won't be an issue when we have a society that doesn't need it to keep folks seperated and to blind them of their common humanity and thus their common interests.
If you have read my posts you would know that I am the fervent anti-captalist, radical Christian always advocating for a just and fair society.
In the meantime please understand that I didn't event these racial classifications again they are used to keep us apart. It was white folks in power again I make the designation the white ruling class the elite white folks who ran society who decided that it was important to implement rules that said if you any black blood in you, you are black. Karen you can look it up these were in the books. So please don't lay that at my feet. The overwhelming majority of black folks who have white blook in them identify as black. So when folks who look black claim to be neutral it raises eyebrows.
I am sure you are aware of the history of whats called "passing" in the black community especially before the civil rights era. Many took as an affront because they were not being who they were.
There was a very good movie made in 1959 that dealt with this subject called "Imitation of Life"
You can see on youtube. Very few blacks over 30 can say they haven't seen this movie.
But at the same time there is nothing wrong with being who you are. There is no such thing as color blindness. The point is to accept folks for who they are not in spite of who they are.
I am referencing the folks who don't say they don't see color. Of course you see color. Just see it and recognize that its a colored or non colored individual human being.
Please don't confuse what I am saying with any nonsense about racial purity.
Anonymous said...
It's about time they started cracking down on Blacks for using that filthy word. Whites were banned from using the N-word a long time ago. And Blacks think they have a right to say it?
That's baloney. Blacks are no better than anyone else in America. Follow the rules folks.
The teacher is white. DOH!
Hear is the man's explanation in his own words:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Mellaneous, "But the few who have tried to hold on to the idea that they are biracial in their everyday functioning, to put it frankly sometimes seemed crazy as hell. In some ways its another way of "passing.""
People need to be who they are, including acknowledging both sides the family they come from. it's part of their identity.
@carmenjonez -- LOL. If reparations ever came up in a way that was seriously being considered then everybody would be black.
But that's not really what I'm talking about. It's certainly a phenomena of the few in context of the overall numbers out there but I travel a lot of sites, spaces, and circles related to race and culture and there are enough 'white' people out there with 'black' ancestry to where I think it's a legitimate question, especially when you consider the one-drop rule and how it still matters though it's importance is less and less.
As to the Cherokee... kicking out black folks (freedmen, many of whom were Cherokee blood descendants) was one of the most shameful things they've ever done. Blood quantum rocks their world and it's destroying them. Pretty soon no one will be Cherokee because of blood quantum imposed by the government and ever promoted by those Cherokee too racist and shortsighted to see they're participating and encouraging the bureaucratic genocide of their own people and culture.
I hope the black community never goes down that path. I agree with mellaneous that race is a social construct and false category meant to divide. It's a category slated for destruction.
Culture on the other hand is another matter and it's something worth preserving in many ways (bad aspects of cultures need to either die or reform though because they influence the whole -- white supremacy being something that needs to die off completely as well as being one cultural aspect no one should shed a tear over).
That said, how someone comes to share in that culture is important. For me, there are two ways (1) birth and (2) acceptance/embracing that culture. I guess I see blackness, whiteness, and all the other -nesses as being quite a lot like being an American citizen. You can either get there by birth or you can become naturalized. When it comes to the problems of the naturalized there's always gonna be a certain degree of "your blues ain't like mine" but there's also quite a bit of shared blues. And since our past often tells us much about ourselves I don't see anything wrong with someone embracing their own heritage.
--j
@mellaneous:
I'm not laying anything at your feet, and I appreciate your honesty, and I hope you can appreciate my sincere frustration.
I'm trying to grapple with WHY we need to care whether "people of color" view themselves as black, or bi-racial or even "cablasian" . And why this is even a benchmark to define oneself.
I'm not dismissing anything you state, and I am sincerely trying to be honest without offending you. I clearly get that in the society we live in, skin color and culture are still used as tools to define and separate people.
Just because I recognize and accept it as a truth, doesn't mean I have to like it, and I chafe under it all the time. Understand ... moving to the US with all its hyperfocus on race makes me a little crazy. I deeply, deeply resent people asking me to check a box on "race". For EVERYTHING.
I get the whole race history here in this country, the legacy, etc, and I understand why the race bean counters want their stats. (before all the ANONs start screaming about my alleged white rich bitch privilege status again).
But I still resent it, because I feel it's putting a burden on our children and perpetuating a mythology and a cycle of divisiveness, and I want it to STOP.
I try and think 400 years down the road .... someone like me existing 400 years from now is statistically improbable, and that's the way it should be. To survive and thrive, any species needs a diverse gene pool. After I'm gone, you might as well stuff me and put in the "extinct" hall at the Museum of Natural History right next to the Condors. On the opposite extreme, Field will be on my other side, cause the chances of his bloodline continuing without mixing is statistically improbable, too. We'll be two ancient artifacts.
I understand the reality with which we all live in NOW, but at what point does it NOT matter? And how do we work together to make the bean-counting unnecessary?
I'm just mad and frustrated as hell and want to know what I need to do so for my grandchildren, this isn't an issue. I have all sorts of reasons for deciding NOT to like certain people, but I don't want skin color or ethnicity to be one of them.
As I've taught my kids: Morons come in all shapes and colors.
"I find (the term) biracial offensive, it’s a way for people to separate themselves from African-Americans, a way of saying I’m better than that. I’m Black because that’s the way the worlds sees me. People aren’t calling Obama biracial. Most people
think there’s a Black president."
That is BS. If you are biracial then be who you are! Just because black or white person is offended because you want to honor your parents-one parent who is Black and the other White-does not mean you must change yourself inside out to please them.
You cannot go through your life trying to live as somebody that you are not inside, regardless of what people say. The only person who will never leave you is yourself. BE TRUE TO YOURSELF.
"I understand the reality with which we all live in NOW, but at what point does it NOT matter? And how do we work together to make the bean-counting unnecessary?"
Karen:
I feel you and this is why I do what I do. I believe another world is possible. The undeniable truth is a long as we live in a capitalist society we have very little chance of ridding society of racism. It thrives on keeping us seperated. Man you think you want to be rid of it, think about how folks who are victimized by institutional, systemic and yes sometimes person racism feel these are the real victims of this system.
You are preaching to the choir.
Just look at this blog for instance this thing(racism) is so crazy that you have folks pretending that racism doesn't exist, you have folks making racist and bigoted statements and saying they aren't racist while all the time being opposed to measures that would end it and pretending that everyone starts on equal footing in this discriminatory society. We have folks redefining racism. The definition of racism is prejudice plus power. But some folks run around accusing poor black folks of being racist. There are few black folks, comparatively that are in position to enforce their prejudices.
This system thrives on it. Look at the Tea baggers rather than looking at the real cause of their woes they seek to scapegoat their while promoting wars and interventions that have nothing to do with the common every day person.
We have to work together to make democracy really work and that is make sure that everyone has all the things they need to succeed in society. That means voting for what we really want, finding candidates of the people not from the ranks of the rich and upper class. Look at how silly it is to have in Kentucky folks hurting but their Senator is fillibustering the bill that will help his constituents badly in need of a few more checks. That Senator I cant think of his name is clearly not representative of the folks of Kentucky. Thats not democracy!
The incessant competition pits worker against worker, while the corporations and the rich get fat.
But finally, the answer is to create a society where racism and discrimination is no longer needed. What would have to happen is to absolutely make it illegal backed up by strict enforcement. You can't legislate away peoples biases but you sure can make it expensive and costly when these biases are used to discriminate. When folks figure out its no longer useful it will drop away as if it never existed.
[quote]He should've known that the word is so charged that you can never use it in any mainstream job without serious consequences (using it in context of academic discussions of the word/the history of racism like a lecture on the term itself being an exception to the rule). [/quote]
--j, WhiteBowieSteve, Eddie (What's up Eddie!!!!) and agape:
You all don't realize how much your arguments can be committed into a decision matrix on a piece of paper and then outsourced to India thus allowing an Indian national to type for you on this blog, making the same arguments that you do.
In the passage above the key point is MAINSTREAM JOB!!!!
Hey Mellanous!!! Follow me on this one man.
Recall that I said that we should hand out badges to "Street Pirates" as a means of "official-izing" their actions? Then you would be inclined to attack their indiscretions as you do the police or the politician. Well the claim that Young Jeezy does not have a "mainstream" job is just another form of the INFERIORIZATION that the Progressive does as he attempts to DISCOUNT the impact of people that they are seeking to cover. Likewise he attempts to SUPERIORIZE people like Rush Limbaugh because there is an IDEOLOGICAL/POLITICAL benefit to is. This despite the fact that Jeezy and Limbaugh have the exact same studio mic when they speak.
Hey WhiteBowieSteve!!!!
Can I ask you a question?
If you discount YoungJeezy in such a way WHY is it that so many Ghetto Schools invite him as a motivational speaker to the "Street Pirates In Training", hoping that they won't turn into a drug dealer as he was?
WHY is it that this White Liberal Democratic Senatorial Candidate invited YOUNG JEEZY to the stage to campaign with him if he is not MAINSTREAM?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mNAOq8ApgBA/STga2o4sK_I/AAAAAAAAAeo/PtSHLC79tMo/s1600/Thugs%2BOn%2BStage%2BWith%2BDemocrats%2BNumbered.JPG
The frustrating thing about many of you is that there is no proclivity to SHUN such operatives who speak hatred and ignorance. IF a "CCC" member was seen on stage with a White Republican you all would blow a gasket. YET those who rap about shooting any Black man who "steps to them" with a "9 to the dome" is seen as a valuable resource in the goal of getting young people and Blacks to vote for the Democrats.
The political operatives see his lyrics as expressing the frustration of an OPPRESSED AND MARGINALIZED PEOPLE. In truth he is trafficking in and profiting from the dysfunction that he talks about. By giving him EXPOSURE in these 'MAINSTREAM VISTAS' you in fact LEND CREDIBILITY to what he is doing.
Do your realize that in this picture there is a Preacher, a county Sheriff, a Senator. At the same event and in another picture there is the President of Atlanta City Council and US Rep Hank Johnson.
The old saying - "When Sugar and Shyt are mixed together - the Shyt retains its character but the SUGAR IS RUINED". It is time for the PROGRESSIVES to distance themselves from certain operatives and thus prove that you value SUGAR
[quote]I'm not dismissing anything you state, and I am sincerely trying to be honest without offending you.[/quote]
Karen:
WHAT IF THE TRUTH IS "OFFENSIVE" to the BIGOT but is no less TRUE? Do you water down the TRUTH in your quest to not OFFEND someone who's only CURRENCY is his ability to show his OFFENDED STATE? (I am not talking about Mellaneous". I am only showcasing the preposterousness of your statement.
I find that by being bound to what SOMEONE ELSE THINKS ABOUT YOU and that YOU being the only person in the relationship that is seeking to uphold this standard - YOU will aways be the one who compromises herself.
[quote]I deeply, deeply resent people asking me to check a box on "race". For EVERYTHING.[/quote]
Karen: You have to understand. The RACISM CHASERS make full use of this race categorization.
* They don't want the Census to allow for "Other" where people "Self-Describe" their race. More categories mean less MONEY FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT for their interests
* They want to be able to PROVE that Minorities get screwed in the Mortgage loan process. Thus if RACE is not captured on the documents - we won't be able to track the "Klan Bank & Trust"
* If RACE is not captured on a college admissions document how will we know that a campus REFLECTS the racial make up of America?
[quote]I try and think 400 years down the road .... someone like me existing 400 years from now is statistically improbable, and that's the way it should be. [/quote]
Karen, Karen, Karen - An "open minded" White liberal. Gotta love it.
IF YOU believe that WHITE FOLKS are going to allow our human MATING DECISIONS to allow you all to "get chocolate" then YOU are more out of it than I had first thought.
The only chance that White folks are going to agree to get some permanent melanin in them is if the SUN and Global Warming necessitates that in order to stay alive and not get massive skin cancer is to have a certain amount of melanin within.
[quote] I believe another world is possible. The undeniable truth is a long as we live in a capitalist society we have very little chance of ridding society of racism. It thrives on keeping us seperated. [/quote]
Mellaneous:
You are a disgusting, depressed MoFo!!!
A SNAKE OIL SALES MAN.
Your goal is to tie CAPITALISM - your ultimate target - with something else that you know is socially reprehensible - RACISM.
For your faulty claim to be true then we only need to go to NON-CAPITALISTIC NATIONS and see how DIFFERENT PEOPLE (Minorities) are treated. Bottom line - YOUR CLAIM FAILS.
Let's expose you for who you are Mellaneous. In truth you merely want a CENTRALIZED AGENT that imposes upon ALL OF US, acting as the middleman in all of our human transactions. Thus when this central agent sees DISADVANTAGE - it steps in and REBALANCES this situation.
For you - CAPITALISM is this threat. Ironically this guy LIVES IN A CAPITALIST NATION - the veritable BELLY OF THE BEAST!!!!! Though he talks about MAKING ANOTHER WORLD - he ain't about to yield his seat inside the belly where he gets his share of gastric fluid that is rich in the resources that the beast STOLE.
Mellaneous rationalizes that with his PROTESTATIONS against the actions of the BEAST - that he is not complicit in all that is going on.
Mellaneous when you see direct oppression in Zimbabwe or The Congo among PEOPLE OF THE SAME RACE - where does this sit with you? IS IT DUE TO CAPITALISM? Or is there some other force?
What you seek to do is to draw people in based upon their own grievances. If you can get them to believe that their angst is caused by that which you ultimately seek to up-end then YOU win, drawing them in as an able foot soldier.
When I say "Anti-America American - STOP BEING A CO-CONSPIRATOR TO WHAT YOU HATE" my friend Filled Negro always claims that I am saying "America - Love It Or Leave It". THIS IS NOT THE CASE.
Instead I am asking the INDIVIDUAL to align his OWN BELIEFS with his location and STOP ASSUMING BENEFIT AND PROTECTION from the stomach lining of the BEAST within which he is sheltered.
Let Mellaneous TAKE HIS OWN BEHIND to another WORLD where he can make the CHANGE that he seeks. If the people are dutifully desperate enough and the land doesn't have existing institutions then INDEED they may be fooled and go along with the scheme.
[quote]The definition of racism is prejudice plus power. But some folks run around accusing poor black folks of being racist. There are few black folks, comparatively that are in position to enforce their prejudices.
This system thrives on it. Look at the Tea baggers rather than looking at the real cause of their woes they seek to scapegoat their while promoting wars and interventions that have nothing to do with the common every day person.[/quote]
The truth comes out with Mellaneous.
Do you see that when I say that INFERIORITY is the centerpiece of PROGRESSIVE-FUNDAMENTALISM I know what I am talking about?
Notice that my good friend Mellanous focuses on two groups:
POOR BLACKS and TEA PARTY PARTICIPANTS.
He INFERIORIZES Poor Blacks yet he makes the case that all who are in the Tea Party - MAJORITY WHITE PEOPLE - have a SUPERIOR possession of POWER - that their WHITE SKIN affords them.
Why don't some of you challenge him on these points?
It seems that when a large enough group of WHITE PEOPLE fill out a "park permit" in any green space in America - BY DEFINITION - this is a gathering of SUPERIORS.
When a BLACK GROUP comes into that same city hall office and gets the next form out of the stack, requesting the same green space with the same number of people gathering together - there is, by definition LESS POWER emanating out of this space.
You have to understand that in Mellanous' world - despite his attempts to place one's POVERTY upon one's material possession - the truth is that Mellanous has the ability to place a MONETARY VALUE on the skin color, hair texture, racial facial features and the DNA codes that communicate these attributes on to the next generation.
Seriously Mellaneous - I challenge you to do a written exercise and send me the results (cs@constructivefeedback.us).
Document in long hand: HOW DO THE INFERIOR BECOME EQUAL in your view?
("How do the least of these become the UN-least of these" )
Does this metamorphosis take place with forces emanating from WITHIN their circles or is it a force that put upon them from some EXTERNAL source?
(I think I know your answer).
Seriously Mellaneous I think that it would do you a lot of good to commit this to writing and publish it for others to see.
he did not deserve to be fired from what i've read and i ALMOST emailed field this story when it first broke but i figured he'd see it. YEAH FIELD. i read about it in the chronicle of higher ed.
the comments are interesting.
here's a link:
http://chronicle.com/article/Towson-U-Adjunct-Fired-After/64446/
someone on this blog was tearing me a new one a few weeks ago when i said i didn't think white people should ever use the n-word and some guy claiming to be a tenured prof said of course in academia you can.
so where are you now, asshole, to defend this guy?
jody--you are absolutely correct. when i was writing a story about the amy bishop murders in alabama, and i interviewed the president of the national college prof union, the american association of university professors, who told me that 30 years ago, two-thirds of the profs on campus were tenured. NOW only one third are and two-thirds are adjuncts, untenured and ineligible for tenure.
they have no rights at all. and the fact that this guy taught there 12 years and was fired OVER THE PHONE is awful.
"Are you suggesting that because the word "nigger" is used regularly in popular culture by whites and blacks that its okay to use it in the workplace or classrooms?
What the heck would you do if a white VP at your company used the word in your presence?"
Jig jig jig, and tap. Jig jig jig, and tap. Let me stop :)
Mellaneous, good point. And is that Paula Patton the actress? I certainly like what she had to say, and, to a great extent, she is spot on. But still, as hearthesiren said, there is the other side of the coin. Interesting.
"They're not going to be "reclaiming" any blackness until they think they have a stake in r-e-p-a-r-a-t-i-o-n-s. Then we're gonna have to do like the cherokees and start kicking people out."
LOL@carmenjonze
Anon 1:51 am, I don't have time to go to the link now. (Off to the plantation:)) But could you please remind me later? Thanks!
"He wanted to be a N**er and so the university treated him as one. SMH."
Nony is coooold.
Great discussion between folks like Mel, Karen, some Anons, and hearthesiren, about biracialism.
But then we have the [un]constructive one with all of his contradictions jumping in. WTF are you talking about? Make up your mind man.
You rip Karen for saying that white folks would allow her to water down her gene pool:
"IF YOU believe that WHITE FOLKS are going to allow our human MATING DECISIONS to allow you all to "get chocolate" then YOU are more out of it than I had first thought.
The only chance that White folks are going to agree to get some permanent melanin in them is if the SUN and Global Warming necessitates that in order to stay alive and not get massive skin cancer is to have a certain amount of melanin within."
Then you rip Mel for suggesting that racism exists in your beloved A-merry-ca:
"Mellaneous:
You are a disgusting, depressed MoFo!!!
A SNAKE OIL SALES MAN.
Your goal is to tie CAPITALISM - your ultimate target - with something else that you know is socially reprehensible - RACISM."
Da f*&^?
Calling Uptown Steve, calling Uptown Steve. Please come and get your boy and take him back to the wingnut asylum. :)
[quote]Then you rip Mel for suggesting that racism exists in your beloved A-merry-ca:
[/quote]
My BFF Filled Negro:
Are you saying that a group of people seeking to CONTROL THEIR MATING DECISIONS so that the collection of genetic characteristics that identify them as a particular "RACE" is itself RACIST?
WHICH ONE IS IT?
My good friend Mellaneous (I am sorry for calling you a MoFo - It was early in the morning and my "BS sensitivity regulator" had not woken up yet) - Mell stated that RACISM requires POWER and PREJUDICE.
Filled Negro - using this as the index for racism and mixing it with the statement that you made about preventing race mixing - WE MUST CONCLUDE that Black women who use their POWER to give a BROTHER WITH A WHITE GIRL the side eye are executing RACISM per their POWER to ostracize a brother.
karen said:
Just because I recognize and accept it as a truth, doesn't mean I have to like it, and I chafe under it all the time. Understand ... moving to the US with all its hyperfocus on race makes me a little crazy. I deeply, deeply resent people asking me to check a box on "race". For EVERYTHING.
I get the whole race history here in this country, the legacy, etc, and I understand why the race bean counters want their stats. (before all the ANONs start screaming about my alleged white rich bitch privilege status again).
But I still resent it, because I feel it's putting a burden on our children and perpetuating a mythology and a cycle of divisiveness, and I want it to STOP.
I try and think 400 years down the road .... someone like me existing 400 years from now is statistically improbable, and that's the way it should be. To survive and thrive, any species needs a diverse gene pool. After I'm gone, you might as well stuff me and put in the "extinct" hall at the Museum of Natural History right next to the Condors. On the opposite extreme, Field will be on my other side, cause the chances of his bloodline continuing without mixing is statistically improbable, too. We'll be two ancient artifacts.
I understand the reality with which we all live in NOW, but at what point does it NOT matter? And how do we work together to make the bean-counting unnecessary?
I'm just mad and frustrated as hell and want to know what I need to do so for my grandchildren, this isn't an issue. I have all sorts of reasons for deciding NOT to like certain people, but I don't want skin color or ethnicity to be one of them.
karen--you're never going to "get it." you are not american and you are white--like me. it is never going to NOT matter. why should it NOT matter? the white race did and continues to do horrible things to people of color--regardless of whether there is a black president. all around the world, every single day.
you want it all to be over--well, wishing won't make it so. you can teach tolerance to your kids all you want, but quit pretending racism doesn't exist. it does.
so until we are all treated equal and treat each other equally, it will never NOT matter.
and for all the centuries in which we did NOT treat people of color equally, we still need to MAKE UP FOR THAT.
sorry if it's an inconvenience for you to have to check a race box; fact is, doing so is not meant to help out whites.
CF
You are such a dishonest POS.
"WHY is it that this White Liberal Democratic Senatorial Candidate invited YOUNG JEEZY to the stage to campaign with him if he is not MAINSTREAM?"
Nobody said that Young Jeezy wasn't a popular cultural figure but HE IS AN ENTERTAINER!!!!
Clint Eastwood, Halle Berry, and James Caan right off the top of my head have used the word "nigger" in their movies but I seriously doubt that they would be stupid enough to use it during a press conference or an awards ceremony.
Is any of this penetrating your skull?
I am a nigger for no one, no matter how difficult the circumstances to achieve my goals, I will never describe myself as a nigger in any way shape or form, I leave that for the “Race Pimps”
I think context and language is everything, not a word itself.
Someone said, what how would one feel if the n word was said in a corporate setting?
Years ago my ex told me that a corporate VP held a meeting of employees and during the meeting said women and "those people" were taking white men's jobs. This was not in the 50's this was the late 80's. Did not using the word nigger, not make the context and intent any different?
If a person is racist and is intent upon disrespecting Black
folk, they will do it and it will have the same effect as saying nigger. What on earth do you Black folk think code words are for? In fact I despise those words more than nigger, because that gives a person an alibi when you confront them.
Melaninous: "I am so glad she said this because some of the craziest people I have run into were black folks who were half black and half white, but tried to call themselves bi-racial. They seemed so unadjusted and I always suspected that the truth really was that they didn't really want to be seen as Black."
Ugh. Clear example of the racialist thinking that distorts a (white) liberalism that purports to be anti-racisit but in reality is mired in maintaining the permanent white guilt/black anger relationship. You come here for affirmation from your Magic Field Negro.
As hard as it is to accept for y'all, it is libertarian conservatism that offers the path to a true post-racial society.
i am not offended by the word nigger
i am offended by the people of all races that it so aptly describes
and i am offended by all of the youth who refuse to see that it is always a slur
ONLY the students truly know this prof and that is why they should decide
many of his faculty peers feigning offense are probably much more racist than he is
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/open-letter-to-clarence-thomas-a-supreme-uncle-tom.html
anon at 9:44 said:
As hard as it is to accept for y'all, it is libertarian conservatism that offers the path to a true post-racial society.
thanks for the laugh! that one will have me going for days!
and i do love the irony in his karmic illustration
he has proven that white profs can indeed be abused "niggers" banished from academic corp bastions...as swiftly as so many rejected defective kidnapped african chattels sold by the dozen...
has he not?
this was indeed a teachable moment even if it is his last tragic lesson
maria
Libertarians are just dope smokin rightwingers.
mell:
u r welcome!
i love paula...
see much more:
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/link/6a0123ddb39306860b01240ba9cc89860e.html
And why did Obama "want to be seen as Black" when he started his political career? If anyone could have forged a post-racial identitiy, it was the son of white liberal mother and a Kenyan Muslim father. He was raised during his formative years in Indonesia by a Indonesian stepfather, and was schooled in the best lily-white private schools in Hawaii. He didn't even associate with blacks when in college at Occidental, Columbia and Harvard; his friends were rich Pakistanis and whites. He decided to be Black only after going to Chicago after graduation. Why? He made it to his late 20's before he hardly even saw a black person.
Obama's blackness is guise he wears to achieve his narcissitic dreams. He has nothing in commmon culturally with the majority of black Americans, not descended from slaves, no history of discrimination, no economic depravations. He did not grow up listening to black music, attending black churches, hearing black stories. He is a self-promoting white liberal who can pass for black. All of us are worse off for his dishonesty.
Maria,
I am still here. I urge you to go back to the conversation and read what I said. But as you have proven time and time again, you are quite simple.
mell:
ditto
i have a simple test
if today was 1793, would you be a slave or coul you roam free all over america per your looks?
if the answer is no, you are black!
ie
tiger's "cablinasian" title would never have let him roam free in 1793
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/hold-that-tiger.html
___
the new racial labels on the census will help hobama starve and slay blacks even more!!!!
shame!!!
http://webspace.webring.com/people/rm/monicasass/RACIAL-LABELS-1.htm
"And why did Obama "want to be seen as Black" when he started his political career"
Because in America, if your daddies black, you're black.
NEXT.
uts:
call any school
the child's race is filed per the mom
i know many blackER looking children with white moms who are documented as "white"
especially in school districts that get cash for diversity where whites are the minority
many blacks are legally declared "white" at will in jamaica too
fyi
mell:
i prefer we revamp the entire census polls to be SOLELY income based!
where we are all
"humans"
and race cannot be twisted/spun to rob poor people of all colors of GREEN cash
http://www.themorningsun.com/articles/2010/02/08/opinion/srv0000007541627.txt
uts:
more on euro black jamaicans who are lehally "white" by choice
http://www.jamaicanewsbulletin.com/content/view/594/53/
rushing as always
please exuse all the typos
i meant:
more on euro black jamaicans who are leGally "white" by choice
i will revamp and repost "rainbow saboteurs" at my blog asap this pm
Maria, why won't you use the quotation marks when you're quoting others? You annoy me with that.
AB;
I like that idea as well esp, if the really rich have to reveal their income.
"uptownsteve said...
maria
Libertarians are just dope smokin rightwingers"
And what has liberalism done for y'all? What has blind allegiance to one party given you? Just cash your gubmint check and go buy some dope. You got free gubmint schools and soon free gubmint healthcare.
Fifty years of the welfare state has DESTROYED the black community. What were once vibrant and functioning communities are now violent and anarchic gubmint failures.
Talk about a plantation!
Free your minds for a minute and try to consider another way.
CF- said
"Let Mellaneous TAKE HIS OWN BEHIND to another WORLD where he can make the CHANGE that he seeks. If the people are dutifully desperate enough and the land doesn't have existing institutions then INDEED they may be fooled and go along with the scheme."
CF this is the same old point you keep making when you can't beat me at a discussion.
Don't you know your history. Thomas Paine and the early American revolutionaries choose to stand and fight and change things where they were. In fact all social transformers in history did. Ghandi didn't run away from India but sought to bring about change within India.
But your assertions about my relationship to capitalism are all very sophomoric. Haven't you read one text on capitalism. To be a capitalist you have to own the means of production. Neither you or I are technically capitalists. You are a supporter I a detractor.
And another civics lesson as a citizen of this country I have freedom of speech or haven't you heard about the constitution? And besides that my ancestors labored too long and my people have caught too much hell and put too much sweat into making this country for one black man to tell another black man that he has to "love it or leave it." (this is getting so tiring)
And yet another civics lesson. The preamble of the constitution encourages us citizens to do something about it if government fails us. Note its interpretation of the role of government as well as our responsibility:
from the Preamble to the United States Constitution:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
NOW CHECK THIS OUT:
"that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."
We wuz so much happier befo we had our freedom.
puh-leeze
Most blacks I know could buy and sell an ignorant knuckle draggin first cousin screwin goober like you ten times over.
"uptownsteve said...
"And why did Obama "want to be seen as Black" when he started his political career"
Because in America, if your daddies black, you're black.
NEXT."
Obama's daddy wasn't black, he was Kenyan.
Why tie yourself in your own chains? Doesn't the world provide enough?
ditto mell:
the census affects who gets cash for municipal/state projects and who does not... and we know who never does
i also despise how the same racist one drop rule that was used to reject and oppress blacks is now being used to whiten and embrace them ONLY as latinos and blacks eclipse white pops.
race was not a "social construct" until whites needed to "construct" some more help remaining the majority race
"Obama's daddy wasn't black, he was Kenyan."
Okay. You're a dummy.
mell:
here is another great true story on the complexities of race
a wm adored a bf so much that he pretended to be an octaroon just to wed her...
deep love story!
really timeless as shameless soulles black & white bigots now outlaw gay marriage
http://www.amazon.com/Passing-Strange-Gilded-Deception-Across/dp/014311686X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267717855&sr=8-2-catcorr
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/link/6a0123ddb39306860b0123f1ad3ac5860f.html
"uptownsteve said...
"Obama's daddy wasn't black, he was Kenyan."
Okay. You're a dummy."
And you are a razor-sharp wit sir! Touche!
So, let me get this straight, "black" is merely measured by melanin? And you have more in common with any dark-skinned citizen of some central african vacation spot than with any of your melanin-challenged neighbors?
You learn something every day, if you want to.
anon9:57,
When I saw Obama's public high school during the inauguration, it didn't look lily white to me.
You are calling Obama a liar, because in his autobiography in high school he did have a conspirator in his blackness.
UTS,
Some people still don't think of Hawaii as part of America. That why I think the birthers have had such an easy time convincing people, even though the US went to war after its bombing by the Japanese.
mell:
his name was clarence king
see more:
http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S26/10/73G58/index.xml?section=featured
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/books/review/Dreisinger-t.html
Anon said
"Just cash your gubmint check and go buy some dope. You got free gubmint schools and soon free gubmint healthcare."
"Fifty years of the welfare state has DESTROYED the black community. What were once vibrant and functioning communities are now violent and anarchic gubmint failures."
"Talk about a plantation!"
Are you aware that this "sounds" racist? (I am only saying this because you throw out the most mean spirited narrow minded statements and then run behind CF and say I'm not a racist.)
Who exactly are you referring to? Who are specifically are you referring to when you talk about cashing gubment checks?
How is free public education a bad thing? Are you aware that right after slavery there were very few free public schools for blacks but blacks got together and organized their own schools. And of course many of the black schools were not up to par with the better equipped white schools --which was the reason for desegregation -- much like today.
And why is free health care a bad thing? Every developed country except for this one offers universal health care to its citizens. Even Cuba, which is technically a third world country, offers free health care to its citizens.
Do you know what a welfare state is, because we don't have one in the US? Maybe you should give your definition.
What has harmed the black community is the same thing that has been harming it all along, the un-level playing field, lack of unequal protection under the law, unequal public education, unequal access to the things that bring life liberty and happiness along with systemic and institutional racism.
Oh and when you talk about black communities 50 years ago you are right many of them were functioning but they were not "vibrant".
The better word would be resilient. Jim Crow in the south during that time deemed blacks as second class citizens (with its accompanying terrorism courtesy of the various white Christian citizens councils and Christian based KKK) and defacto Jim Crow in the North was doing its part to limit black mobility both upward and lateral, thus producing many of the ghettos we have today.
Policies of red-lining and a lack of job promotion and unequal pay for equal work and dilapadated schools had the effect of limiting black progress.
Hathor
"Some people still don't think of Hawaii as part of America."
And some people still can't accept that a black man is President.
So they have to make him something else.
Obama's heritage is not very different many African Americans, most of whom have mixed race ancestry.
And the notion, proposed by people like "anonymous" that Obama "posed" as black for political advantage is just too stupid.
When and how has black skin been a political advantage in America?
Mell:
sorry if it's an inconvenience for you to have to check a race box; fact is, doing so is not meant to help out whites.
8:54 AM
------------------------------
My frustration is not that it's an inconvenience, it's IMO it's used soley so we don't talk about the issues BEYOND race.
AB Said:
"call any school
the child's race is filed per the mom
i know many blackER looking children with white moms who are documented as "white"
especially in school districts that get cash for diversity where whites are the minority
many blacks are legally declared "white" at will in jamaica too
fyi"
--------------------------------
Wow. I didn't know that.
So, they get to run the scam both ways.
AB-
That Clarence King story is fascinating. Thanks for the link. I vaguely recalled that, man you must have a little egg head or nerd in you as well.(lol)
That makes for an interesting discussion. It demonstrates the craziness of race. This guy had blonde hair and blue eyes and he passed for black.
But AB I swear I had a teacher who was also a fellow church member who had piercing green eyes I mean like emeralds and very long hair and she looked on appearance just like a white woman. But she was black and would explain to anyone who asked that her Daddy was white and her mother black, and would tell you if you asked that she was always considered black and was proud of her heritage. AB she could have passed with ease.
I knew other folks like that in my community and in my backwards days as a youth, I would wonder why they didn't just Pass. I thought, "wouldn't life be easier." Of course, and then I came to know that there was much more to life than the ability to buy and trade and acquire "trinkets."
Field-
Yes that quote was from Paula Patton the actress who made that statement I quoted. It was on the newsone website and I don't remember the link, but AB provided it either yesterday or the day before.
(I think that Karen is indeed ignoring me)
[quote]Nobody said that Young Jeezy wasn't a popular cultural figure but HE IS AN ENTERTAINER!!!!
[/quote]
WhiteBowieSteve:
You keep TELLING ME that I am WRONG and a Piece Of Shizle. I want you to LAY OUT YOUR ARGUMENT to this effect.
Just because you call me such names does this make it so?
OR are you used to having fellow bigots listening in to second the motion and thus there is no need for you to spell it all out?
mellaneous
"Oh and when you talk about black communities 50 years ago you are right many of them were functioning but they were not "vibrant"."
They kill me with this "paradise lost" for black folks.
If things were so great 50 years ago then what the hell was the Civil Rights Movement for?
Why were Malcolm and NOI preaching on corners in ghettoes all over America for blacks to turn away from the vices white America planted in the hood and live clean sober lives?
So sick of the lies.
AB Said:
"i prefer we revamp the entire census polls to be SOLELY income based!"
Amen!
I have no problem with equal opportunity, I just wanted it to be based on issues other than race.
As far as the whole, "whites still owe blacks" meme, let me ask:
Does this mean that Sashia and Malia, who have two Ivy league educated parents, lots of income, and get to go to a very upscale prep school, still continue to be more "deserving" of state-sanctioned preferences based on their race, or should be we looking at some child from a poor community, (black OR white), who would be the first generation to go to college, who didn't have all the opportunities that MONEY and STATUS buy, to get a shot at going to an Ivy with a full scholarship? IMO, It's harder for ANY poor kid from any community to get a fair shot than it is for middle or upper income kids of any race. Whether or not your parents had the opportunity to go to college is a bigger deciding factor in your chances of making it and succeeding than the color of your skin.
Is the key issue ALWAYS race, or is it more importantly MONEY and STATUS?
I'm getting the sense Mell would argue (a).
Which is the point I was trying to make .... WHEN do we stop getting distracted by RACE and start questioning the other issues that create "unequal" opportunity?
Mellaneous:
I was in a meeting yesterday with a guy who I used to work with at the old "evil telecommunications company" that I used to work with.
He gave me an update on the equipment in the MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR, capitalist FINANCED infrastructure and how they got rid of some stuff from 10 years ago to what they are running now.
Mellaneous: Do you see this "X" right there?
When I press the "enter" key on my laptop it travels over no less than $50 BILLION worth of infrastructure for your eyeballs to read it: Fiber optic cables - trenched through STOLEN land from the Native Americans. Routers and Switches that were made in China - thus cheating Americans out of employment. Electricity used to power multiple data centers using DIRTY COAL.
The list goes on and on and on.
You see Mellaneous - YOU believe that if you only purchase "Organic - Free Range Chicken" and thus avoid "Tyson Chicken" that YOU have NOT participated as a "CAPITALIST CONSUMER CO-CONSPIRATOR".
In truth the AGGREGATE STANDARD OF LIVING that you are afforded as you are PLUGGED INTO THE MATRIX makes it UNAVOIDABLE for you to exist without "FEEDING THE BEAST" that you despise.
I TOLD YOU !!!! The ONLY way that you can reconcile your actions with your thoughts is to do something to allow the beast to regurgitate you. After you are freed - YOU choose not to use your American credentials to get back inside of the belly.
I am NOT trying to throw you out of this country.
I am only trying to get you to be true to your own calling.
Hey My And My Microscope - what concoction is known to make a reptile throw up? You need to tell Mellaneous so that he can get the Beast to vomit him out.
[quote]Does this mean that Sashia and Malia, who have two Ivy league educated parents, lots of income, and get to go to a very upscale prep school, still continue to be more "deserving" of state-sanctioned preferences based on their race, or should be we looking at some child from a poor community, (black OR white), who would be the first generation to go to college, who didn't have all the opportunities that MONEY and STATUS buy, to get a shot at going to an Ivy with a full scholarship?[/quote]
Damn, Karen I was hoping that you were more definitive in your views on this point. It would have helped me to understand how serious you were with that "planned genetic extinction" bit that you ran by us earlier.
THE ONLY PROBLEM with your argument is that you are dealing with PRIVATE ACADEMIC INSTITUTIONS.
How is it that you are plotting on their admissions policies, insuring that "poor people" get their FAIR SHARE - when these entities were FOUNDED just as YOU could purchase some land today and start your own institution that will one day become elite.
I am less concerned with some of your all's ability to note the "opportunity" that these private, elite institutions afford a person than I am confident that you all know how to make an institution of YOUR OWN into such a status.
If some of you were honest you'd allow these Ivy League schools to "discriminate" as they please. INSTEAD you should go to the back end and stop the entities that HIRE THE GRADUATES FROM THESE ELITE INSTITUTIONS, forcing them to stop recognizing the degree as a "pedigree".
Hear this, my friend Mellaneous - do you agree that by merely insuring "Black Access" to the Ivy League the SYSTEM which ensnares the privileges to such a diploma REMAINS INTACT. Thus the NEGRO who has such a degree will just be a "brown-skinned elitist with his nose turned up", just as his White counterparts who graduated as such do.
IF you are going to "hate on an island of exclusion" then let your intellectual honesty cause you to go all of the way.
mell & karen:
ditto
the only real divisions are not racial but class/income/lives/education etc
those rainbow elitists who rule the world under one green umbrella keep all poor people distracted divided and DYING due to racial hatred
shame!!!
yes mell
my friends have always teased me for being the coolest sexiest nerd they know...smile
i have been a techie dj and a university scholar since i was 12
see more:
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/john-mcwhorter-is-a-rabid-black-fool-on-the-loss-of-his-mind.html
nerds rule the world!
ask bill gates
who is one of the coolest and afrocentric men on the planet
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://philanthropy.com/blogPost/The-History-of-Black/21188/&ei=RuSPS-GRENGOtgezuoiiCw&sa=X&oi=nshc&resnum=1&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CAcQzgQoAA&usg=AFQjCNE8yRJdmwW0jiVh9PpxThy0_rTHYA
AB;
Studmuffin & I always tell the kids...
NERDS rule the world!
;)
My dear friend AB:
At what point does your own desire to alleviate these "divisions" cause you to SEPARATE from the group who's own firmly entrenched beliefs are so incompatible with your own that SEPARATION is the means of accomplishing UNITY?
Do you feel me? It seems that we are missing the notion of the DOMAIN OF UNITY while attempting to strive toward UNITY.
So frequently I worry more about the centralized behemoth that will be created to ENFORCE UNITY than I am threatened by the pockets of misallocated resources.
Thus we need to also measure the amount of ORGANIC INDEPENDENCE a certain movement and ideology is creating so that those who feel that they are being MARGINALIZED won't be eternally damaged upon the day that their ADVERSARY takes my advice and they initiate the SEPARATION process, their main offense being to demand that they be LEFT ALONE.
(Preemptive strike against WhiteBowieSteve: the Confederate States wanted to be SEPARATED so that they could violate God's creation of an EQUAL HUMAN BEING, rendering him as a mere beast of burden. This is grossly different than having a situation like Pakistan/India who's "tribal" differences triggered them to separate into two distinct nations out of one.)
"Which is the point I was trying to make .... WHEN do we stop getting distracted by RACE and start questioning the other issues that create "unequal" opportunity?"
One thing I think you'll find is that this is much easier in more homogenous countries and much harder in more heterogeneous countries.The more divisons you have amongst people based on race, ethnicity, or religion, the less likely the becomes that you can tackle other economic issues of inequality. We like to think we are better off with all kinds of diversity but there are certainely times where too much diversity inhibits progress because a consensus cannot be reached.
"When and how has black skin been a political advantage in America?"
Are you seriously suggesting that a white man with Obama's resume would ever be considered for the job?
Are you that stupid?
It is gratutitous to give into the temptation to name call, but Mellaneous, you are an idiot.
cf:
no can do...
silent & listen are spelled with the same letters
you ignore reality to rant
unlike u,
i do not debate insanity for debate's sake
i have to have some sane skin the game...nahmean?
____
karen:
ditto!!!
i teach entire lessons on how nerds rule the world
to inspire kids who think only rappers pimps and thugs are cool
ie
for the teens/adults
i explain how hugh hefner would be just another broke lewd pimp if he did not also run a magazine empire etc...ONLY his/his staff's literacy and business acumen make him an icon
karen:
ps:
ie
nerds escaped nola!
katrina was a great chance to how teach lessons about education and income as survival tools!
see more on that here:
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/katrina-kanye-and-greensburg-on-tragedies-and-contrasts.html
"Are you that stupid?"
No, but you obviously are.
Let's see.
Prior to Obama there were 43 white guys, several of whom didn't even go to college.
We go as recently to George W. Bush who ran several businesses into the ground only to be bailed out by his Daddy's friends.
A black man with that track record would be selling hot dogs on the corner.
Bush took his last corporate handout and bought a controlling interest in the Texas Baseball team.
Parlayed that and his family name into the Texas Governorship.
Stop it Anonymous.
People are starting to laugh at you.
agape2010 said, "@ marie:
Please read what I posted to that annon person. And on his/her behalf I apologize for his/her showing of ignorance on Christianity. Thank you."
please explain why must you apologize to marie for what some anon said? is it because marie is white?
everyone knows that for sometime marie has trashed Christians, Christ, God and religion.
are you apologizing because you feel you must say, "i'm sorry" to marie for everything others do?
that's sad. life must be very difficult for you. stop kissing marie's ass, you are embarrassing yourself.
SOM
Still Waters said...
Maria,
I am still here. I urge you to go back to the conversation and read what I said. But as you have proven time and time again, you are quite simple.
9:58 AM
no thanks, i have a life. and remember those comments coming from an anon--are you now admitting that's who you are?
and so what is your take on this guy? or are you just going to ignore what FN's post and my question were about?
also KAREN--that quote isn't from mel. it was from me, and i guess you just ignored everything i said.
His statement wasinappropriate, however firing him...that was a bit much.
Firing him without so much as a formal hearing...tsk, tsk, tsk.
ANON @ 12:10
" One thing I think you'll find is that this is much easier in more homogenous countries and much harder in more heterogeneous countries.The more divisons you have amongst people based on race, ethnicity, or religion, the less likely the becomes that you can tackle other economic issues of inequality. We like to think we are better off with all kinds of diversity but there are certainely times where too much diversity inhibits progress because a consensus cannot be reached."
----------------------------------
I profoundly disagree. If you believe in individual freedom, the right to choose and be accountable for your choices,and making a clear set of ground rules, then consensus isn't that hard. But most friction in the political arena occurs because humans are competitive, and tools like racism, wealth distribution policies, rationing of apprenticeships for skilled trades, university seats, etc are used to allow some groups to accumulate more power, control and influence. For many, control is the most important thing.
There are many things I don't like about being a military spouse, but there are also many good things. One of those is the chance to meet people from all walks of life and income brackets and experiences.
And no, that's not a bumper sticker, it's the truth.
The military historically has been one of the few places that offer a chance of genuine upward mobility to anyone from a low income/socioeconomic status if you're willing to work hard.
So I see groups of people with profoundly different viewpoints reach consensus all the time.
Having diverse viewpoints and backgrounds DOES help us. There's never one way to skin a cat. And, without diversity of thought, it's very easy to spiral into group think...."this is always the way we've done it" ...which I see prevalent in many of the small towns we've lived in.
@AB -- I don't always agree with everything you say (who agrees with anyone all the time, really?) but I'm lovin' you more and more each day. Race was invented precisely because they did NOT want us to ever discover the real problem of class. This isn't a theory it's in historical documents dating back to colonial times that the poor (blacks and whites) must be prevented at all costs from making common cause because rule by and for the elite would fall. And as long as poor and working class folks identify as black, latino, asian, and white FIRST and often EXCLUSIVELY there will be no progress.
There's a reason Limbaugh et al spout class warfare all the damn time. They use it to demonize and dismiss any and all discussions of class before they can even take place! The quickest path to a bullet is for an American activist or politician to actually make progress in starting a movement that demands economic justice.
--j
Karen,
I'm not talking about diversity of thought. I'm talking about diversity of race, ethnicity and religion. Take urban areas for example. Cities have had a very hard time finding a consensus on social spending and on infrastructure; yet, suburbs have not had those issues. That's because suburbs are more homogenous and thus people there have far more similar ideas about what they want out of their life and their community.
I think you'll also find that mostly black and mostly white communites have far less friction than mixed communities.
If we looked more like Korea or Denmark-that is, much more homogenous-than we would already have universal helathcare and a good social safety net.
@MARIA 12:27
"also KAREN--that quote isn't from mel. it was from me, and i guess you just ignored everything i said."
-----------------------------------
You're right. My apologies to MELL.
And I did read what you had to say.
You clearly didn't read what I was saying, because you already had rushed to judgment.
So, yes, I chose to ignore it. I'm not "required" to respond to anyone's post, just as others are free to respond or not to mine.
You're free to believe what you want. I just don't want to respond to someone who has taken it upon themselves to dish out big helpings of liberal white guilt for me.
I'm aware of my many privileges I have in my life -- a stable home, a good university education, a loving husband and children. Both my husband and I are the first in both our families to go to university. Most of our black friends in the US are multi-generational college educated. But that doesn't fit most Liberal whites' paradigm.
So I "get" that I'm white and fortunate. Check!
Unlike you, I just don't think I need to feel guilty about it.
you don't know shit about me--i feel no guilt for anything and i have worked hard for everything i have.
and i work for others who don't have what i have.
but unlike you, i don't pretend that racism doesn't exist. because you personally don't think you're a racist and don't like checking a box and all that stuff you're uncomfortable with.
check mate!
ANON said:
"Karen,
I'm not talking about diversity of thought. I'm talking about diversity of race, ethnicity and religion. Take urban areas for example. Cities have had a very hard time finding a consensus on social spending and on infrastructure; yet, suburbs have not had those issues. That's because suburbs are more homogenous and thus people there have far more similar ideas about what they want out of their life and their community.
I think you'll also find that mostly black and mostly white communites have far less friction than mixed communities.
If we looked more like Korea or Denmark-that is, much more homogenous-than we would already have universal helathcare and a good social safety net.
12:46 PM"
---------------------------------
Well, I can't speak for your experiences, obviously.
But what you posit is a popular meme in many conservative circles, but that doesn't make it true.
How do you "quantify" homogenity = civil tranquility?
If you've ever lived in an upper income white Liberal area like Berkeley or the "right" parts of NYC, where there is INCREDIBLE uniformity of race, education, income, political ideas ...those are the most vicious, knock down cat fights going. I was at a Whole Foods type organic, fair trade market near Stanford running into get a juice for my low blood sugar and witnessed two middle aged white guys screaming and each other and ramming each other with their shopping carts over who didn't go down the aisle the "right" way inside the store.
On the other hand, I grew up in a very vibrant and diverse neighborhood, but it might not be diverse enough for you: Indian Hindus and Sikhs, Pakistani muslims, German post-WWII refugees, lots of Greeks, Italians, Filipinos, Vietnamese and for good measure, two Jamaican families. We all went to the same school, and got along.
At the end of our neighborhood were some level crossing railroad tracks. A train hit a commuter bus that stalled on the tracks at rush hour, and several of our neighbors were killed and/or hurt.
My dad was one of those who rallied the troops to demand the government speed up construction of underpasses for busy crossings.
Lots of our neighbors didn't want to participate or come to the meetings because they came from countries with huge private police forces that meted out repercussions for those who challenged the state. My dad and our other neighbors had to convince them that it was okay and safe to advocate.
Living in the neighborhood, as a 12 year old, my parents let me ride the subway to the ROM to take art classes and belong to the Junior Naturalist club. After the meetings, my friends and I would hang out in the various funky ethnic conclaves in the downtown district, buying cheap trinkets and scarfing down yummy edibles.
I can't imagine in today's world any sane parent letting their kids do that now. But our parents thought nothing of it, as long as we "all stuck together". And we did.
MARIA@12:56
Good for you. Keep polishing those "I'm a concerned White Liberal -and-YOU'RE a racism denier" creds.
I hear you. Let FN know he can hang up his racism chasing shoes.
You're on top of it.
I'm sure he'll appreciate it. He's getting pretty tired.
Karen,
I'm not talking about people fighting in Whole Foods. I'm talking about community and governmental decision making.
For example, take the left wing in this country. The political left regularly gets its ass kicked by conservatives. This has been going on ever since Nixon got elected. Why? It's because the left is hopelessly divided by color, gender issues, religious issues etc. Yet the right has few of those problems. If the political left is to ever have a chance to assert itself again in Washington, it's going to have to find a way to bridge the big differences between disparate coalitions. So far, it seems that no one can figure ot how to do it.
MARIA@12:56
"you don't know shit about me--i feel no guilt for anything and i have worked hard for everything i have.
and i work for others who don't have what i have."
Well good for you. Because no one else on this BB does that, clearly.
Not AB. Not FN. Not Bennett. Not me. No one.
Nope.
Just you!
Tell me, what do you use to polish your halo? Brasso or just lemon juice and salt? I guessing the lemon -- you like the bitter.
"The political left regularly gets its ass kicked by conservatives."
Yep. The Southern Strategy to target and exacerbate white resentment worked very well for 30 years.
In case you didn't notice Einstein this country isn't nearly as white as it once was and race baiting isn't going to work anymore.
Clinton won in 92 and 96. Bush stole elections in 2000 and 2004.
The Dems take back the Congress in 2006 and Obama wins in 2008.
The rightwingers are gloating now about the 2010 Congressional elections but you have one glaring problem.
YOU HAVE NO IDEAS.
Merely opposing Obama is going to play out very quickly.
"It's because the left is hopelessly divided by color, gender issues, religious issues etc."
Are you insane?
The Democratic Party actually LOOKS like America whereas the GOP looks an Iowa Hockey League.
The day of the righty is over and I saw good riddance.
ANON@1:13:
Sorry, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I see incredible consensus in policy making in Canada.
And they continue to examine whether or not policies perpetuate stereotypes and unequal opportunities.
For example, right now there's lots of debate about the licensing of non-US or Commonwealth educated engineers.
The country clearly needs to attract more engineers, scientists, etc, but how do you quantify a newcomer's educational background?
There's a balance between public safety and denying someone the opportunity to practice their craft. It's a huge loss to have former engineers, or dentists, or teachers ending up working in retail or the cliched driving a taxi.
Those are the types of good policy discussions, because it forces us to confront our biases.
@ANON
Again, I guess I'm just not understanding the point you're trying to make.
If homogenity = consensus, then how do you explain most of the vicious conflicts of the last 200 years.
Cambodia. China. El Salvador. Argentina after Pinochet. Rwanda. Those people had the same skin color, but that didn't end well.
So it must be something other ... like competition for power and CONTROL over people.
There is always consensus when any group of people decide on a common framework of shared values. Portioning resources then becomes easier.
Peel back most of the arguments, and most of it is class and control -- more government control/oversight or less? Is the collective responsible just for basics like clean water, roads, etc and we are responsible individually for providing for our families? Or should the government be the great equalizer and force equal outcomes even in spite of our widely varying interests and talents.
I had a PhD student on a visa from Poland at the height of the Solidarity movement rent a room in our common house during university. She told me she became a chemist because that is what the central planning government told her she was going to be.
Is that where we want to go?
I don't.
But I also don't want to live in a system where we have a disparity of greater than 500:1 between the earnings of some CEOs and their entry level workers, based on the system and rules being gamed and skewed.
But I also want people to have the freedom to fail. Sometimes the best learning comes from our failures.
Those issues to me aren't based on race, religion or ethnicity.
AB:
Thanks for all the good links.
I'll try and read them and rsvp later.
K
hey karen--fuck off. i'm not going to waste time with you.
i'm not comparing myself to anyone else, nor do i need to explain anything i do or defend myself.
feel free to carry on in la-la-land.
j:
thanks!
if you judge me by my posts and not the haterade drunken morons herein, you will find that i am uniquely sane, passionate, fair, consistent & loyal always...
like most leos i am just fierce when i roar...but a kitten down deep...smile
see more:
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/profile/
_____
k:
no rush
take your time!
i LOVE all your links 2!
fn:
you will love this classic!
i cut the prof some deserved slack
but these 3 racist foolish teachers EARNED an immediate boot
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/03/04/2010-03-04_teachers_in_trouble_after_honoring_oj_simpson_dennis_rodman_and_rupaul_for_black.html
Steve,
I'm not a Republican. Secondly, if you think the Democratic party is liberal (especially Clinton) you are dreaming. Third, the Republicans don't have any ideas, but you think the Democrats do? They are two heads coming from the same monster.
How do you and Karen think liberals will be able to bridge their differences? It's a very important question that practically no one asks. I can see right here on this very blog tons of friction between self proclaimed black and white liberals. However, I don't see it getting resolved. the Democratic party continues to hug the middle-or even move right-and i don't see any liberal plant to fight it.
liberals will resolve their issues when they stop pretending that have ANY allies in DC!
hobama is more rabidly elitist than repub!
what has obama done to maky anyone call him a liberal?????
what banker is a liberal???
Well, Alicia, i will agree with you. The liberals have few allies in Washington-including Obama.
and
racists rule all in dc and even in liberal orgs!
http://blackagendareport.com/?q=content/diversity-schmifersity-when-it-comes-black-even-left-ain%E2%80%99t-right
anon:
liberals are poor
and NO poor people have any allies in dc!
obama has bilked poor people to pay rich bankers legendarily etc
elitist fools like rush l call
obama a liberal/socialist to keep mindless fools too confused to notice that obama is robbing the poor at cosmic levels/as never before!!!
http://www.democracymatters.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=lgLUIXOwGnF&b=3781527&ct=5392341
j:
this is my fav film on how elitists use racism to play and abuse the poor of all races:
http://www.amazon.com/Chamber-Chris-ODonnell/dp/0783226942/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1267731625&sr=8-1
Uptown Steve-
I feel you!
Karen_
I don't have a lot of time to elaborate right now, but you have me figured wrong or are you reading what I am writing closely.
Remember when I was talking about the origins of race in the US I pointed out that it was the capitalist the ruling rich folk, who in this case are white, use it to keep us all divided.
So you see I believe the primary problem is one of class. But race is also a problem because folks of color are defrauded and degraded in order to make some people feel, that well 'at least I am not one of them' and use that as comfort instead of fighting for their fair share of the pie.
Again I believe that this socioeconomic system called capitalism is the primary source of evil in the world. Yeah I said it.
So read carefully its about class@!
AB- right on girl I am feeling you today, but I usually do. But sometimes you are so rough on folks lol
Anon with sense said:
"Andas long as poor and working class folks identify as black, latino, asian, and white FIRST and often EXCLUSIVELY there will be no progress.
There's a reason Limbaugh et al spout class warfare all the damn time. They use it to demonize and dismiss any and all discussions of class before they can even take place! The quickest path to a bullet is for an American activist or politician to actually make progress in starting a movement that demands economic justice."
preach my friend
Amen!
"Andas long as poor and working class folks identify as black, latino, asian, and white FIRST and often EXCLUSIVELY there will be no progress.
What can be done to reverse this trend?
mell:
yes!
it is ONLY all about class
hobama's grandparents were elite
even as his mom was poor
his PR childhood and life are LIES!
yet
hobama's being half black gave him a pass to dog poor blacks more than ever
that was the original plan!
INCREDIBLY, it is still working like a charm...
long before obama nazis started hating tavis, they hated debra dickerson
to my knowledge, she was the very first black person to call hobama out...and her words are still sheer poetry
http://motherjones.com/politics/2009/01/class-new-black
see:
"Simultaneously, millions of blacks woke up on November 5 with yet another buppie made better off on their backs while they remain jobless in dangerous neighborhoods, their immediate futures no brighter for knowing that cornbread may start appearing at the White House Thanksgiving table. When we all stop weepily singing "We Are the World" and emailing each other about what Great-Aunt Bessie would say now if she weren't dead, we'll find that race is still a festering wound. A wound believed to be self-inflicted on one side, daily resalted on the other. "
to date, this is one of my fav cols on hobama!
see more:
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/the-perils-of-prophecy-obama-unmasked.html
@ANON 2:07
"How do you and Karen think liberals will be able to bridge their differences?"
-----------------------------------
Why am I being dragged into a discussion about how liberals are going to resolve their differences? I'm not a Democrat or a Liberal, so I wouldn't know.
My approach to problem-solving the big problems is the antithesis of what Liberals believe. When I worked in the thinktank in DC, my boss would use me as the designated Contrarian.
I don't watch alot of media, because I think it's all prepackaged stories designed to push propaganda. I prefer to read non-US papers, and esp those in other languages.
I sometimes watch CNN and I do like Fox News. I've enjoyed John Stossel since he moved over from ABC.
I went to the Tea Party on the mall on 9-12. Contrary to most strongly held opinions, I don't want to avoid paying taxes. I am quite happy and proud to contribute a share towards the common good. I like having clean water, safe roads, EMTS that will respond when I dial 9-11. I don't resent paying for those things.
I resent all the fraud, waste, kickbacks, grafts and any manner of schemes that the government has morphed into.
I believe universal education is the best way to uplift anyone from poverty, but I strongly disagree with the Democrats and esp. the teachers unions on how to achieve those goals. I think property taxes are a very inequitable way to fund education.
So as to how the Dems and Liberals are going to solve their internal discrepanies is not my concern. I'm taking the discussion about solutions to different places.
Anon
I'm trying to understand what "differences" you are referring to between both Democrats and the black and white liberals on this board.
You, like most white conservatives, seem to be extremely offended by diversity.
Well you damn sure better get used to it because people of color are not going anywhere and will only gain numbers.
The GOP remaining a white regional party is only going to seal your doom.
@AB -- Thanks, I remember seeing the chamber years ago. Now that I'm older and wiser I think it's definitely something I should watch again. I'm glad you mentioned it because I'd all but forgotten about it until you jarred my memory.
As to elite exploitation of poor whites in particular but also poor and working class folks of all colors... would that someone had taken up Dr. King's forgotten cause. I know Rustin (much as I love him) thought it was a losing issue (too controversial and would cause too much backlash at blacks, he claimed).
*sigh* Bittersweet memories of Bill Clinton's pragmatism and incrementalism come to mind when I think about Rustin's stance -- just stick to making the most important things a little bit better and avoid controversy. Don't push too hard too fast--we've got a good thing going for most and really these people aren't worth it. They're too few or they're not our color or they're not our gender or they're not our religion or whatever. All of which is a longer way of denying someone else justice. So many of our pols, including President Obama, need to seriously revisit "Letter from a Birmingham Jail" for some pointers and spine.
--j
MELL:
Yes, you're right, I didn't read your post thoroughly. I got it mixed up with Maria's post. I'm sorry.
I went back and re-read what you had to say. I agree with lots of what you have to say, but I also disagree with several points.
Confronting our biases when we talk about how to make things more equitable is frightening for many people, especially those who feel they are going to "lose" if the rules are changed.
I know just how angry and irrational people will get if they think they "lost" because you "won" something they believe you weren't entitled to.
I have been the beneficiary of equal opportunity, but it was to overcome some biases inherent in the system that raised unfair barriers to women vs. men in competing for science slots in university.
It's a hypercompetitive atmosphere for a university education so things get tense.
On one of our standardized exams, the girls (me included) all tanked one specific section. We all failed that portion. As a consequence, all the girls ranked much lower than the boys.
The section we all failed had to do with drafting and interpeting orthographic views.
The boys had studied this since 8th grade in their shop classes. Shop, at that time, wasn't open to girls. We had to take sewing.
So we had never practiced drafting, etc, so when those questions were presented to us on the exam, it may have well been in Greek. We all took wild guesses, but we all failed. Having never seen the material, how could we possibly "win".
I came home from the exam in tears and my dad asked me what happened. It became clear to him that the exam was biased, so he went to the school. The school refused to budge. The next thing I knew, the local anchorwoman was in our living room.
After the story ran on the news, lots of people stepped up and demanded that the drafting section be removed, and the grades recalculated on the remaining portions. All the girls scored high. The boys who were bumped down in class rank were furious.
So I'm right there on the barricades demanding that the rules we play the game by be fair.
@MELL
Yes, I agree that class is one of the biggest dividers.
Which brings me to another discussion point:
I was at book club, and the discussion came around to "class". One of the ladies defined "class" as a measurement of someone's education.
And I silently thought to myself, well, there's lots of people I know with all kinds of degrees from expensive places on their wall, and they're the most selfish, classless and boorish people I've had to deal with.
And I've been treated with extreme grace and class by people with limited formal education and not very much money.
I'm not sure if capitalism is the problem, since we haven't practiced real capitalism in this country for decades.
And I don't know why people are literally taking to the streets about the whole AIG-Bank bailout. That was massive fraud and theft on a scale almost uncomprehensible. Everyone involved should have their assets frozen and an immediate inquiry launched. That money belongs to the "people". You can't game the "I win - I keep", "I lose-you Pay"
system like this indefinitely.
j:
ditto!!!
mlk is my idol as the most diverse and brave leader ever
who was truly a humanitarian to ALL globally
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/the-timeless-dr-martin-luther-king-jr---on-his-letter-from-a-birmingham-jail.html
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/video/6a0123ddb39306860b0123dde05464860c.html
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/shaming-the-kings-again---bernice-king-pretender-to-their-throne.html
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/video/6a0123ddb39306860b0123de05ffd3860d.html
ANON @3:11
"Letter from a Birmingham Jail" for some pointers and spine.
----------------------------------
Cosign!
King had to go because he was getting to close to achieving a seismic shift in our culture.
ps j:
i also love mlk because he was humbly humanly flawed
and hones even about his own flaws as a sexist/adulterer etc
see much more:
http://www.amazon.com/May-Not-Get-There-You/dp/068483037X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267734379&sr=1-1
karen:
amen!
if king had not started to slay elitist warmongers he would still be alive!
i grieve daily because tupac/mlk/malcolm/fred d/james b are gone
they would all stand with tavis and cornel and mike d and debra d and harry b etc and call hobama out!!!
ALL of them would hate obama!!!
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/dr-cornel-west-is-my-hero-1.html?_c=feed-atom
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/link/6a0123ddb39306860b0123de01ba14860c.html
uptowncharliebrown:
"Well you damn sure better get used to it because people of color are not going anywhere and will only gain numbers.
The GOP remaining a white regional party is only going to seal your doom."
What color might that be? It sure ain't gonna be black.
And the democrats handing their party over to black control is working out real well, ain't it?
Quick, get out your encyclopedia of convential wisdom and come up with some more racist claptrap about the where this country is going. Better go ask Linus for some help!
Anon,
"What color might that be? It sure ain't gonna be black."
That's okay.
Like I said this country is multi-hued and most things in it are as well.
Except the GOP.
"And the democrats handing their party over to black control is working out real well, ain't it?"
Doing okay by me.
I see it's really upsetting you though.
Calm down and relax Anon.
The sun will come out.....tomorrow!
@MELL
"This system thrives on it. Look at the Tea baggers rather than looking at the real cause of their woes they seek to scapegoat their while promoting wars and interventions that have nothing to do with the common every day person."
-----------------------------------
Mell, I must respectfully disagree with the viewpoint.
I'm not looking to scapegoat anyone, save for politicians who make backrooms deals that sell everyone out.
As for "WAR", I am hardly a war-monger, and I'm not seeking to escalate any conflicts. I'm working to bring our troops home, and I'm working with like-minded people to return to the view of a national defense that the founding fathers envisioned -- a true "national" defense system, not the exportation and projection of empire.
My husband may be in the military, but he didn't vote for Bush in 2000 - he warned everyone that the Bush-Cheney team would get us into the middle East again. Most people laughed at him.
WAR is always about bankers and their friends making money. We're in Afghanistan to protect their interests, not ours. The line of FOBs matches the pipeline.
The Nation did a great article on how we're funding the Taliban.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20091130/roston/
The amount of money that is being siphoned from the American taxpayer and going right to the same cronies that have always had their hands in the till is nauseating.
And, none of these Overlords have any of THEIR young children getting blown up, let alone the children in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Studmuffin says, to truly be anti-War, you have to have gone to war to experience its full Hell.
k:
ps
and huey n!
he would call obama out too!
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/video/6a0123ddb39306860b0123de02fc7f860c.html
"and huey n!
he would call obama out too!"
Before or after he took a hit off the pipe?
utterlyuseless:
before.
before he was broken by conitelpro and black cowardly elitist clones of you.
before YOU have yet to do a thing for anyone of any race!
you are unfit to even hold his crack pipe!
utterlyenvioussambocoon:
before he was broken by COINTELPRO and black cowardly elitist clones of YOU boy!!!
instead of sitting here slurring greater men than you all day
see how the cia made sure our BPP heros like huey became junkies and corpses..AND ONLY SOULLESS NIGGERS LIKE YOU MAKE JOKES ABOUT IT!
http://www.amazon.com/Cointelpro-FBIs-Secret-Political-Freedom/dp/0873488776/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267737823&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Die-People-Huey-Newton/dp/0872865290/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267737841&sr=1-1
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/link/6a0123ddb39306860b01240ba95425860e.html
http://www.amazon.com/Panther-Joe-Don-Baker/dp/6305181292/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1267738047&sr=1-1
utterlyfoolish:
before
because huey was gorgeous!!!
and after....hobama may have joined huey hitting that crack!
after that dl closet crackhead goofy looking emaciated DL hobama would have loved to smoke BOTH of huey's pipes!!!
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56626
AB
Face it, most of the Panthers went out like suckas.
Newton became a crackhead.
Bobby Seale hasn't a tooth in his mouth and writes bbq cookbooks.
And Eldridge Cleaver became a damn rightwing Republican who voted for Reagan and publicly kissed William Buckley's racist ass.
I'm always suspicious of so-called "revolutionaries" like yourself because most of the time its all mouth.
Sideline hecking at people who are actually doing the heavy lifting of building a just society, raising families, increasing understanding and tolerance.
Most of you negroes are just mau-mau loons who look for plots and conspiracies everywhere.
You look down your nose at any black person who doesn't think like you or who doesn't behave in way that you feel is "down for the cause."
You have a problem with Obama because he's not rockin a dashiki and fist pumpin at press conferences.
Get real my sista.
It's deeper than that.
"AB- right on girl I am feeling you today, but I usually do. But sometimes you are so rough on folks lol"
BS. AB is weak. i can whip her tired chunky cheese butt any day. yeah, i said it and dare her low IQ butt to mess with me!
the last time she tried to take me on, i laid her ass out and i am only 12 years old!
UTTERGDFOOL:
I AM NOT YOUR SISTA NIGGER
YOU ARE NOT IN MY TRIBE "BRUH"
AND YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE BPP BECAUSE THEY NEVER LIVED IN ANY GATED COMMUNTIES!
utterjokeyourself:
eldridge was a psycho rapist
always
bobby is still a better man than u
and ONLY racists and fools judge the BPP by what cointelpro did and by their weakest links!
do your homewk on
fred hampton and huey you fool!
assnons are retards and they love to flaunt their retardation each day as that is all they have to contrinute to any convo.
tragic!
_____________
uttersucka:
a "sucka" is a nigger who blames the BPP for what cointelpro did to the BPP
and who decades later is still arrogantly ignorant about huey n and his glory and his demise
you nigger are a supreme sucka
utterlyblindobamanazi:
i adore many classy educated blck men who never owned a dashiki or donned an afro
i have a problem with obama because he has niggers like you shirtless and he has bashed his fist in your collective faces until your black bruises are as green with infection as the money he gives to bankers...
and you skinning grinning shirtless toothless niggers are loving every fist pump to your busted broken faces!
utterlyyingniggerjigging:
i am on the FRONT lines in neighborhoods your luxury car could never find fool
and YOU sit on the sidelines lying and name calling and doing NOTHING to save your own soul as you cheer that hnic hobama own and make massa prouder every day!
you are the most lost nigger on this blog!
utteridiot:
if huey was alive
he would hold you while i slap the cowboy shit out of you
i would never hit a bitch like you with my closed fist
was it something I said?
uttermoron:
THIS BOBBY was an ideal panther
i bet you and your neocon nigger pals make jokes about this dead baby boy too!
http://www.pbs.org/hueypnewton/people/people_hutton.html
it is a shame that blacks like yo waste ocygen existing daily
it is air a better man should breathe!
utterasshole:
no nigger
it is something you are
shit colored toxic waste in a world that can no longer afford to smell u
AB:
Enjoyed the link to Debra Dickerson. She is quite the wordsmith.
She makes the points extremely well.
What she doesn't address is how to confront the fear of the white middle class who are worried they're losing ground, and, in their minds, everyone else is making up lost ground to their detriment.
Because the fear is real, and just dismissing it doesn't make it go away -- it just goes undergound.
Karen is a white tea bagger!!
Why are any of you even TALKING TO HER? She writes a good tale--maybe--but then slowly reveals herself for the scam artist she is and as someone who represents everything that is wrong in America.
SarahPalinKAREN -- OUT, OUT!
karen:
ditto
yes
she is a poet and a sage
but many blacks ignore her and slander her just because her husband is a wm
the fear is something real and escalating
and it is easy to understand those who fear a world where they see themselves disappearing literally....even in the faces of their own mixed race grandkids
see mroe on that here:
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/black-love-gray-lies.html
karen:
ditto!
yes
she is a poet and a sage
but many racist illiterate blacks ignore her and slander her just because her husband is a wm
the fear is something real and escalating
and it is easy to understand those who fear a world where they see themselves disappearing literally....even in the faces of their own mixed race grandkids
see mroe on that here:
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/black-love-gray-lies.html
Maria, may i call you marie? I have one question that i have been wondering about regarding a comment you made but never answered:
How can you pray hard for someone's black kids, when you claim to be an atheist?
Many want to know who you pray to?
@agape2010, before you jump in to try to apologize to mariemaria for my words-because Jesus Christ told you to-let me use a phrase i learned today from one of mariemaria's comments: "Fuck off".
assnons are bigots who think tea bags are olg groupies who hang with tiger woods
Anonymous said...
Karen,
I'm not talking about people fighting in Whole Foods. I'm talking about community and governmental decision making.
For example, take the left wing in this country. The political left regularly gets its ass kicked by conservatives. This has been going on ever since Nixon got elected. Why? It's because the left is hopelessly divided by color, gender issues, religious issues etc. Yet the right has few of those problems. If the political left is to ever have a chance to assert itself again in Washington, it's going to have to find a way to bridge the big differences between disparate coalitions. So far, it seems that no one can figure ot how to do it.
Anon@1:13 you have point. The left is hopelessly divided and disorganized. Obama and Clinton's elections were blips on the overall screen. And these guys are best describe as liberal Goldwater Republicans. The country agrees with the left general, but between bickering between labor unions, hollywood liberals and civil right activsts, lack of cohesive strategies have all but frozen the American Left out of political progress.
UTS, normally you're my man, but on this one we part ways. On a purely pragmatic level, nobody in their right (no pun intended) mind would join a hard liberal cause, simply because there's little in terms of ROI. Unless your in a safe seat, why bother backing a bunch lefty cranks who can't bring the votes? As you pointed out, many of the Weather Underground and Black Panther types went out in flames. And don't get me started on the anti-globalization types who spend more time harrassing starbuck baristas than doing anything useful.
Yes, AB, liberal issues are usually the issues of the working class. But the leadership on the progressive side is so disorganized and ineffective that the work class has little means to channel their rage productively. ( Its partly caused by corporatism, but make no mistake -- the hard left has all but shut themselves out of politics since the late 60's.)
utterlyhopeless:
any silly mf who is a bm in america and pen this is lost indeed
"Most of you negroes are just mau-mau loons who look for plots and conspiracies everywhere."
YOU have to look?????
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/24/katrina.cop.charges/index.html
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/video/6a0123ddb39306860b0123ddf97b21860c.html
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/proof-of-conspiracy-on-gloria-naylors-1996.html
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/video/6a0123ddb39306860b0123de0473ef860d.html?_c=feed-atom
ETC!!!!!!!!
"What she doesn't address is how to confront the fear of the white middle class who are worried they're losing ground, and, in their minds, everyone else is making up lost ground to their detriment."
That's the game the GOP has been running on the average white person for 40 years and I think some of them have figured out that they've been suckered.
The first order of business is to show middle class white folks that they don't pay any more taxes than black middle class folks.
Then we might point to the corporate greed that outsoruced much of America's jobs to Asia, closing American plants, laying off American workers while recording record profits.
Anon@5:05
And I go to the Range with Studmuffin....and I like it!
;)
Nobody has a lock on wanting to make this a better place for everyone. I get no joy from seeing anyone suffer. My eyes light up when I see someone who has beaten all the odds and lives their dream as an inspiration to others.
And the Tea Party anger has been building for years. The Patriot Act I think was really the beginning of the true anger and concern about the erosion of freedoms. It just reached an unprecedented level of synergy in response to the whole TARP mess.
LA*Coincidental
"On a purely pragmatic level, nobody in their right (no pun intended) mind would join a hard liberal cause, simply because there's little in terms of ROI."
I agree.
Obama is no liberal.
He took action with the Wall Street bailout because there was no alternative to the impeding depression had he not.
lac:
wtf???
you say that like there is some ideal org somewhere
republicans?
neocons?
hnics?
congress?
dc?
hobama inc?
please show me that ideal model
your one trick lib bashing pony show as the cheerleader for utterfool's stepin fetchit pimp chic is moronic and boring!!!!
where are this ideal politicos and orgs????????
AB
"but many racist illiterate blacks ignore her (Debra Dickerson) and slander her just because her husband is a wm"
Not true.
Many blacks are suspicious of Dickerson because on many occassions she sounds like just another black coonservative sellout.
Like her book "The End of Blackness" where she implores blacks to give up the struggle with no concessions expected from whites.
Or the friendly interview she gave with the racists over at Frontpagemag.com where she did the usual black righty shuffle..ie attacking her fellow blacks and congratulating white folks for being so patient and understanding.
It was enough to make you vomit.
utterelitist:
was that a reply?????
dyam
YOU care ONLY about taxes and money...
you do not care or speak for poor people who have nothing!
hobama will ensure they get even LESS of nothing each day
@LACoin:
"Yes, AB, liberal issues are usually the issues of the working class. But the leadership on the progressive side is so disorganized and ineffective that the work class has little means to channel their rage productively. ( Its partly caused by corporatism, but make no mistake -- the hard left has all but shut themselves out of politics since the late 60's.)"
-----------------------------------
I worked with the left and the far left (New Democratic Party & CP) on community issues of mutual interests -- for example, shutting down ped wards in local hosp & centralizing, which would be a huge burden on low income families.
While I appreciate the rhetoric of my friends on the Left, after working with them on "social justice" issues, it becomes quite clear the mission is equalization in a "one size fits all" mold.
That's where I part ways with them. I'm all for "social justice" issues, but not the tasteless tapioca pudding.
I'm more of a let-me-be-free to make my own choices and be my own person kind of gal. And I'll fight for your right to be who you need to be too.
utterpathologicalliar:
READ THE BOOK FOOL????
HELL NO!!!
LIKE HOBAMA
YOU LIE!!!!
Dickerson encourages blacks to focus on their own talents and ignore the expectations of whites and other blacks. She fearlessly condemns the black community for defending the actions of O.J. Simpson and Marion Barry, and for scorning "Uncle Tom" figures like Julian Abele, a black architect who designed Duke University in the 1920s despite its whites-only policy preventing him from ever visiting the campus. "The great architect never got to see his creation, but those for whom he left it in trust-knowledge seekers of all races and nationalities-do. Thank God he was an Uncle Tom," she writes. Few of the book's assertions are new or groundbreaking, but Dickerson updates and expands the arguments by using references to current television sitcoms, mass-mailed Internet jokes that reinforce stereotypes and the emergence of hip-hop artists as individualistic thinkers to back up her statements. Addressing an incendiary issue in a straightforward and un-self-serving manner, this polemic is likely to provoke thoughtful discussion.
http://www.amazon.com/End-Blackness-Returning-Rightful-Owners/dp/0375713190/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267741509&sr=1-1-spell
utteridiot:
seen this great new doc on how niggers like you and lac told BPP jokes while COINTELPRO was slaying a superior liberal org????
http://41central.com/
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/video/6a0123ddb39306860b0123de02fc7f860c.html
no thanks, i have a life. and remember those comments coming from an anon--are you now admitting that's who you are
Maria,
I seriously doubt you have a life.
Are you crazy? I never didn't admit I was anon. The first week I posted on here I posted as anon, maybe 2 weeks to be exact.
Thanks for playing, you better get back to that life you got there...
UTS:
"He took action with the Wall Street bailout because there was no alternative to the impeding depression had he not."
BS. He took action because he was bought and paid for by Wall Street. Just look up his key contributors. It wasn't $10 moneybombs from Mom and Pops in America.
A much better use of the money rather than making sure Goldman Sachs doesn't lose a night's sleep would have been to invest in the Home Loan Mortgage Modification like he promised.
Writing off a portion of underwater homeowner debt and rescheduling an am schedule that families could realistically pay would have done more for America than any of his other projects.
But instead, we have children forced to leave their homes and tent cities popping up all over America, or families living in their cars. Just how permanent is this new underclass going to be?
But I'm sure all the Principals of Golden Sack won't be missing a tee time out in the Hamptons.
utterhypocrite!
has debra dickerson ever lied in any interview to anyone?????
unlike you who lie and degrade black heros herein daily!!!!???????
what????
AB, "utteridiot:
if huey was alive
he would hold you while i slap the cowboy shit out of you"
AB, "utterasshole:
no nigger
it is something you are
shit colored toxic waste in a world that can no longer afford to smell u"
AB, "utterlyyingniggerjigging:
i am on the FRONT lines in neighborhoods your luxury car could never find fool
and YOU sit on the sidelines lying and name calling and doing NOTHING to save your own soul as you cheer that hnic hobama own and make massa prouder every day!
you are the most lost nigger on this blog!"
AB, you sound upset. Is there some 'black blood' between you and uts?
Too bad Huey isn't around cuz I'd love to see Huey hold uts while you slap the shit out of him.
LOL. I would pay money to see that.
UTS:
"The first order of business is to show middle class white folks that they don't pay any more taxes than black middle class folks."
I don't think the WMC feels that they pay more in taxes than the BMC, I think they are upset that the redistribution of resources is being taken out of their pockets while the top 1% of income earners have their tax burdens reduced -- not even taking into account the offshoring of their money, aka the Kennedy Clan -- a great group of folks who are always big on spending other people's hard earned money.
karen:
why do these obama nazis keep talking about the stimulus like it worked?????
jobs and homes and poor people are still all fatally bleeding
banks gave NEW bonuses and NO loans!!!
poor people got robbed and hobama is still paying the rich!!!!
wake up
obamacare is a swindleus pkg for pharma corps!!!
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/link/6a0123ddb39306860b0123f1ad38fd860f.html
anon:
uts is a neocon who has done nothing but slur and diss my idols like huey...
he enjoys joking about and degrading black men who are greater than he will ever be and that pisses me off
he is NEVER honest on this blog and i despise him for that
he is now blatantly lying on debra d and her book that he has never even touched etc
i have 0 tolerance for toxic black neocon coons!!!!!!!!
AB -
As usual, you missed the point. There is no perfect organization. However, progressive groups tend to be, well, rather weak in terms of return on investment. If the Greens, Socialists, the NAACP, the Progressive Caucus or the CBC were managers in a medium size business, the board would have fired them by now.
And that's just the 'insiders'. The average liberal on the street rather spout antiquate 60's cliches and lyrics by Immortal Technique and call that 'fighting the system.' Sorry, but that mau-mau nonsense is dead. People need more than empty talk and silly ideas that went out with Bell bottoms.
Its a question of tactics. I say this a lot and you keep coming back with 'Obama-Nazi' without addressing the core issue -- with so little movement on the Left towards change since the 70's, why is it suddenly all Obama's fault? And, what do you feel would be the smart, tactical response to our pressing concerns?
UTS:
"Many blacks are suspicious of Dickerson because on many occassions she sounds like just another black coonservative sellout."
Does this mean you think Professors Wiliams and Sowell are "sellouts"?
Do they not have anything of value to contribute? Is their perspective to be dismissed out of hand because they're conservatives?
Prof Sowell has written some pretty scathing work on the White Liberal land set aside scam in California, to deny the building of lower cost homes that lower income whites AND blacks could afford. Once tucked into their coastal communities with a gate and an ocean view, they don't want the riffraff around, so presto! -- "Conservation Areas" and moratoriums on building.
Does that viewpoint make him a "sellout"?
k:
ditto
and the top 1% makes sure that the OTHER whites and blacks of ALL other classes keep feuiding so they can live opulently in peace!
including that millionaire elitists' puppet in chief hobama!
____
lac
if there is no perfect org
do you not see what a glaring hypocrite you are to feign posing some exclusive real questions about nonexistent perfection exclusively to liberal orgs???????
lac:
THE worst joke org on the planet now is THE DEMS imploding before the flobe with that hnic hobama in charge?
why are you not querying them wirh such noble concern and passion???? even as a peer politico dem...no????
lac:
THE worst joke org on the planet now is THE DEMS imploding before the Globe with that hnic hobama in charge?
why not help the dems perfect their horrid global rep?????
LA Confidential what do you mean by the statement the hard left has all but shut themselves out of politics since the late 60's.
What is the hard left? And what do you mean by politics are you referring to electoral politics?
Karen-
I didn't realize you were a tea bagger. Why are you being so simplistic? When I was referring to the scapegoating of immigrants and people of color by many of them it doesn't mean all.
So where are you coming from? Why do you identify with folks who can barely articulate their greivances? And most of them are decidely pro-war.
CF- what in the world are you talking about? Give it up man I am not going anywhere get it through your thick head. Its really boring you really can't defend your ideas better than that.
I mean the racist anon calls me an idiot because he hates black folks like me, who can stand toe to toe with him and tell him the system he admires so much is the greatest source of evil in the world. But what is your problem.
Make your points prove how benevolent capitalism is and how it has not impoverished the Third World and pitted whites against black, men against women, worker against worker.
Cut out the foolishness about who and what you think I am. You don't have to guess I express myself very well.
Anon (the conservative one)-
I know why you call me names you always bring a knife to a gun fight. I think the fact you choose to characterize me with descriptions that are totally the opposite of how I represent myself are reflections of your desire for me to be an idiot or a fool. It must be tough carrying all that animosity around. You should be chilling --the system has been good to you-- instead of on here getting in the way of forward thinking conversations.
lac:
just as the primary agenda of teh BPP was to empower blacks against police harassment and brutality and feed the poor and imcrease literacy
my "hard left" agenda is to makle people realize that hobama is not jesus, the bailouts were not
slow manna from heaven, and IF they wake up they may not be annihilated by an elitist in blackishface!
fyi
see more of my hard left agenda here:
http://blackagendareport.com/
LA -
What do you suggest that revolutionary minded and radical folks should be doing?
I think you are wrong about the effect that radicals have had on this country since the 70's. Remember they don't have State power and the State uses all of its powers and big business to convince folks that the only way is the prescribed way.
Radicals and revolutionaries are on the outside looking in, they have to try to convince folks of their common interests and point out the failings of the system. They are not going to win most of the time but i think radicals or real leftists have done a good job of exposing the reality of hte corruption of capitalism as a system.
mell:
what lac meant was:
"you bad darkies made massa mad so u deserve to be run off our plantation...gwone nigh!"
4 real
shame!
the CBC is full of hard left liberals who are calling out obama to date!
but lost knee grows like lac and uts are blind to them if they wear even a tiny fro etc....
shame!!!
mell:
wonder why that perfect org hobama inc messed up so badly today...huh???????
http://weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-now-selling-appeals-court-judgeships-health-care-votes
lac:
if you were truly concerned with repairing flawed political factions
why start with your obsessive liberal bashing?
we poor powerless liberals should never be the first recipients of your noble deeds
start with hobama inc!
that amoral bastard prez and his fellow freefalling bumblers really need the salvation you long to discover!
now!!!
@MELL
"Karen-
I didn't realize you were a tea bagger. Why are you being so simplistic? When I was referring to the scapegoating of immigrants and people of color by many of them it doesn't mean all."
------------------------
I feel you are the one being a wee bit disingenuous, MELL. I've read the posts about "TEABAGGING" for a while now. It seems most have formed an opinion, but without ever really sitting down and talking to someone about why they're involved. The anti's are just swallowing the venomous MSNBC talking points, where the spitting, screeching white fat tub of bile aka Chris Matthews decides to play race baiter and hater on behalf of the poor Negroes who he feels can't speak or think for themselves. You must be so glad he & KO have your back.
The term "Tea Bagger" is meant solely to demean and diminish.
Words matter, and have meaning.
People in the black community should know that better than anyone.
I'm not offended, but I think using the term diminishes the user.
utterlysoulless:
nigger fbi agentss like you INFILTRATED the bpp to make them all junkies and corpses and ONLY niggers like you think that's funny boy!
shame!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFL3BnEa-vE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oIWjbhZI-A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ypqCYPduI&feature=related
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/mumia-abu-jamal-cointelpros-most-renowned-political-prisoner.html
ANON@5:09
"-let me use a phrase i learned today from one of mariemaria's comments: "Fuck off"."
---------------------
Thanks!
;)
This situation is just stupid. he should not have used the word. if he had called a student the n-word i would be leading the charge for his dismissal, but that was not the case. He should have been suspended and posibly monitored by the department chair, but he should not have been fired.
www.ebonymompolitics.wordpress.com
@LACON
The answers are obvious.
What they're selling is failing everyone.
So stop buying what they're selling.
You can complain about the problem, or you can choose to be the solution.
Most Lefties I have worked with spend inordinate amounts of time complaining how "someone" should do something about perceived problem X, while the rest of us have moved beyond the committee stage and have rolled up our sleeves.
If you want specifics, I'm happy to share.
utterlyinlovewithohobama:
only a homoerotically obsessed fool would have to pretend that obama is ome saint who could ONLY be disliked for his hair and clothes
THAT is some classic obama nazi "logic"!!!
if obama was a clone of the chocolate locked mumia who wore ONLY dashikis, i would still despise him for his corp green chi-town thug soul!!!!
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/link/6a0123ddb39306860b0123de036da8860c.html
utterlyinsane:
i cannot even imagine a jew watching hitler gas other jews while telling rebel jews:
"you only hate hitler because of his clothes and his hair!"
this is why
i so deeply despise obama nazis like you!!!!!
&
this is why jews run the world
while niggers like you only run lawn mowers across your gated lawns
niggers like you cheer hobama on at the HELM of our PERPETUAL african-american holocaust!!!
shame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/political-pablum-pavlovian-praises-perpetual-patronizing-promises.html
and lac:
i find your transparent fake stepford politico bs just as repulsive and dishonest as all the bs utterlystupidmf spews
akin to a scared ass slave telling harriet t:
"i pass on the fleeing because your railroad is flawed...so how will you save 20 slaves this run rather than 10?..."
as IF any other rebel did what she did!
as if any other rebel route was there to take!!!
NO black org can compete with the rebel legacy of the BPP...flaws and all!
NO other black org is as heroic as the CBC today with hobama...flaws and all!!!
ALL of them do more than whiny critical bitches like u and uts
i will never let you 2 uncle tom obama nazi fools piss on ANY org and call it "healing perfecting rain"
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