Friday, January 08, 2010

Searching for a movement.


My problem is that I was born about 50 years too late. And if you consider yourself a progressive like moi,-not a dumbocrat- you probably feel the same way. The A-merry-ca we live in today will never be the A-merry-ca we hoped that it would be. Poll after poll tells us that A-merry-cans are more conservative than progressive, and that most A-merry-cans, when it comes to their politics, like to play it safe. Anything that seems to lurch away from their sense of normalcy sends them into a panic.

I have been thinking about this a lot lately, especially after reading Harold Meyerson's excellent article in the Washington Post and after reading some of the comments on this very blog. ( I think it was La-Coincidental.)

Part of my disappointment with Barack Obama is that he seems to be just more of the same. Just another politician -albeit one who looks like me-playing the Washington political game.

I wanted something more extreme. I wanted change. Real change. I was hoping that O and his O-Aid drinkers would start a real movement for change in this country. They have not. The Obamaholics have been sitting on the sidelines and hoping for the best. They seem to be glad that their boy is in power, and they sit around and twiddle their thumbs while they wait for the other shoe to drop.

But where is the activism? Where are the folks who licked stamps and handed out flyers for his O ness? Where is the grass roots movement? It certainly isn't on the left. No folks, unfortunately, it's coming from the right. We rip the tea-baggers and Glen Beck's 9/12 wingnuts, but they are loading up buses and heading to Washington. They are sending their money and devoting their time to taking down Obama and his agenda. As much as I hate to say it; the wingnuts are the real activist in A-merry-can politics these days.


"... The reasons for the stillbirth of the new progressive era are many and much discussed. There's the death of liberal and moderate Republicanism, the reluctance of some administration officials and congressional Democrats to challenge the banks, the ever-larger role of money in politics (see reluctance to challenge banks, above), the weakness of labor, the dysfunctionality of the Senate -- the list is long and familiar. But if there's a common feature to the political landscapes in which Carter, Clinton and now Obama were compelled to work, it's the absence of a vibrant left movement. .."


"Absence of a vibrant left movement"? Nope, there is an absence of a movement, period. Back in the day, as Meyerson points out, there were viable progressive movements in this country advocating on behalf of the poor, and disenfranchised. No more. Now these same people have been hoodwinked into thinking that they have a voice in the halls of power and that the folks sitting in the inner circle and pulling the strings on behalf of A-merry-ca, represent them. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Those people represent lobbyist and their corporate benefactors. No one else. And, sadly, I am starting to believe that a certain smooth talking fella from the Midwest with an Arabic name isn't representing them, either.

Poor white people in this country have been indoctrinated into thinking that they have their skin color, so no matter how poor and powerless they are, they will always be better than the black guy or the immigrant sitting next to him. No need to team up with those people to form any type of political or social movement, because it won't benefit them. It will only benefit those other people.

".. In America, major liberal reforms require not just liberal governments, but autonomous, vibrant mass movements, usually led by activists who stand at or beyond liberalism's left fringe. No such movements were around during Carter and Clinton's presidencies. For his part, Obama won election with something new under the political sun: a list of 13 million people who had supported his campaign. But he has consistently declined to activate his activists to help him win legislative battles by pressuring, for instance, those Democratic members of Congress who have weakened or blocked his major bills. To be sure, loosing the activists would have brought problems of its own: Unlike Roosevelt or Johnson, who benefited from autonomous movements, Obama would be answerable for every loopy tactic his followers employed. But in the absence of both a free-standing movement and a legion of loyalists, Congress isn't feeling much pressure from the left to move Obama's agenda. .."

Maybe, Mr. Meyerson, the" left" isn't pressuring Congress, because they don't think it will do them any good.

99 comments:

Childsplay said...

Sir...I have read your blog for a long time. I am white, 63 years old...a grandmother and I believe myself to be fair minded. I enjoy reading blogs that differ with my point of view and have learned much that has challenged my thinking on some issues and have solidified my thoughts in others ..So, I want to ask a very sincere question and hope you receive it in the spirit that I am asking because I very much want to understand this point..
First let me quote from your blog today and then state my question..."The America we live in today will never be the A-merry-ca we hoped it would be.....I wanted something more extreme. I wanted change. Real change. I was hoping that O and his O-aid drinkers would start a real movement for change in this country. " Ok...1. What does the America you hoped for look like? 2. Could you give some examples of some REAL change? What would that look like?
I appreciate you leaving room for comment and hope you don't mind a question. Suzanne

Blinders Off said...

But he has consistently declined to activate his activists to help him win legislative battles by pressuring, for instance, those Democratic members of Congress who have weakened or blocked his major bills

That sums it up in a nutshell!

The saying "You cannot trust a politician" IMO now is VERY TRUE...A politician is a politician is a politician...I am sick of it!

daFunkDealer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
grinder said...

Poor white people in this country have been indoctrinated into thinking that they have their skin color, so no matter how poor and powerless they are, they will always be better than the black guy or the immigrant sitting next to him. No need to team up with those people to form any type of political or social movement, because it won't benefit them. It will only benefit those other people.

This one cuts both ways. Black intellectuals make the same error that white racists do: the composition fallacy. You know, "you're all alike."

There is white privilege, so all whites are privileged. There is white racism, so all whites are racist. And you wonder why a lot of whites won't team up with blacks? Frankly, most whites are afraid to even try. They're afraid they'll say something wrong. No shit.

As for everything else you wrote, I agree. People can yammer their heads off about the teabaggers, but in politics you get points for showing up.

Team Obama thought they were too good to stoop to countering the teabaggers. You know, like Dukakis thought he was too good to say that if someone raped and murdered his wife his first reaction would be that he'd want to rip the fucker's lungs out and then take him apart with a butter knife. Like Kerry thinking he was too good to go apeshit when the Swiftboaters went after him.

Obama and the Democratic Party think they are too good to play politics the rough way. I am going to hate to see it happen, but these people are going to deserve the utter shit kickin' they're going to get this fall.

And if black people are seriously interested in teaming up with white people to stir up some shit, then find some firebrand leaders who aren't goddamned buffoons like Sharpton, Jackson, or Farrakhan. Build some bridges with the Latinos, and go out looking around for, oh, I don't know, the 40 or 50 million white people who sure as fuck don't seem to have too many privileges when they get up every morning, and stop treating them like they are Bull Connor's cousin.

Not to put too fine a point on it.

Uh-oh, I just broke my New Year's Resolution to be kinder and gentler, didn't I? Shit. I knew that would happen, but I hoped not this soon. Bring it on, I guess.

Anonymous said...

"But he has consistently declined to activate his activists to help him win legislative battles by pressuring, for instance, those Democratic members of Congress who have weakened or blocked his major bills"

He has declined to activate his activists, because that would run antithetical to his pledge of bipartisanshit. He does not want to appear as a leftist.

He wants to appear as a uniter.

How can you coalesce folks who do not want to collaborate?

Obama is not the only one exhibiting this behavior. The Congress democrats are behaving likewise.

Case in point, a democrat majority in the Senate pandering to one independent senator and one republican senator to get 60 votes on a watered-down version of health care, to convince themselves of bipartisanshit is ridculous.

Why didn't the democrat majority use reconcilation to pass health care reform? What am I missing here?

field negro said...

Childsplay, you ask a fair question.

I think if you have read this blog over the past couple of years you will find that politically I am to the left of most folks.

I consider myself somewhat of a secular progressive, although my brand of socialism is closer to Owen and Cabet than Marx.

A perfect society for me would look like the United Federation of Planets from Star Trek: No money. No wants. No poverty.No crime. No decease. And a corrupt free state.

Since you and I both know that human nature being what it is, this form of utopia is not possible; I would settle for a society that stresses education over military might. One that treats all its citizens as equals. A government that is not driven by money and greed.(Serious campaign reform is needed.People shouldn't be elected to office based on how much $ they can raise)
And a fair and impartial judicial system.

In my A-merry-ca you would see less churches on every corner and more youth centers. You would see less guns on the street. You would see more kids going to school. You would see people living their lives free from intrusion from some religious group. And everyone (especially children) would have access to poper health care....I could go on but it's late. Maybe one day I will do an entire post about this and break it down in a more detailed fashion for you.

I hope that helped for now.

The saying "You cannot trust a politician" IMO now is VERY TRUE...A politician is a politician is a politician...I am sick of it!"

BO, I feel your frustration.

11:46 PM

daFunkDealer said...

Field,

This is Kelvin, again, from out in the twin cities. Love this post, bruh.

It is really interesting: I will defend Obama to the end against the white supremacy that has allowed an vilely insidious and predominant discourse of surveillance, so racist, that he cannot wipe his ass without an opinion poll being conducted to see how Amerikkkans feel about it.

Also, in my courses, the semester whereby he entered into office (November '08), I told students--who asked me about my feelings towards him--that I thought he was U.S. Imperialism in blackface. They did not like it. Received complaints. Not a favorable position to take in this country because, as you allude to here (and pointed out elsewhere), Blacks (and other) people might have gotten caught up in his "symbolic value" (first black prez) and failed to see the/his political economic value accompanied with and, in fact, enabled the rise of the Black political messiah--part of which could be understood by knowing that his "O-ness" was hand-picked and groomed by Henry Kissinger (a point that doesn't appear in the media as much). To that note, real quick: I found it interesting that when he received the Nobel Peace Prize, White Amerikkkans wanted him to "give it back." Yet, Kissinger & Roosevelt received the that very same Nobel peace prize: were they told to "give it back?"

I hear you and think that you bring up important issues; issues that deserve attention, and need to engaged and taken seriously.

I am not against this brutha. I think mostly for my students, they are trying to understand my position: if I am against U. S. Imperialism (the same U.S. Imperialism that continues to exploit Africa and the rest of the so-called "Third World" for its natural resources and raw materials, while using it as a seemingly infinite supply of labor--making Globalization really real) then I am against U.S. Imperialism: no matter the color of the face of U.S. Imperialism.

Regarding his "O-ness," I leave you with two quotes from our uncompromising sister, Marimba Ani (aka Dr. Donna Richards) who asks: "Is this the final act of assimilation, accommodation, and integration? Is this how we are fulfilling our promise to the Ancestors? Has America made restitution for what was done to them, still being done to us? Is the Maafa over or has it merely morphed into another, more insidious form of genocide? Are we now experiencing a life-threatening condition of cultural AIDS in which our immune system has turned on itself? Has the Yurugu virus mutated so that it looks like us? Are we participating in our own self-destruction?"

She then asserts (problematizing, of course), ". . . now we are "making history" by being swept up in someone else's definition of what history is. We are "making history," by capitulating to integration, accommodation, and assimilation. We have reached the mountain top, for we have been able to vote for a "first to." The struggle is over. We have won. We can proudly say that one of our people represents the most repressive, destructive, inhumane, anti-Afrikan nation ever to have existed! We are proud to be part of a multinational corporate structure run by sociopathic adolescents who think nothing of stealing from their own people (Imagine what they will do to us)."

Its always good reading what you have to say--you are hella funny.

Oh yeah. . . Btw, I think they will destroy Tiger (or make him pay with his life--to the point of "social death"), to collect restitution from his ass for "invading" and "dominating" *THEIR* game. He brought more money into the game golf (literally altering the political economy of golf) than Jack Nicholson and they are pissed about that (his mere presence in the game increased the monetary purses exponentially).

Have a good weekend, Field--much luv and respect. Stay warm over that way.

~Ciao,
Kelz

field negro said...

Thanks Kelvin, nice hearing from you. About Tiger: I don't know. Dude has some serious skills. I think that wil keep him in the game for awhile.

Anonymous said...

I agree with your assestment and the Op-ed. A couple of my friends have been talking about this recently. We are under 25 and are waiting for the administration to call upon us.

If they want us to March on Washington. We are there. Need proof - just see Jan. 20. We are waiting for our voices to be heard.

In the Op-ed he noted that they had an email list of almost 13 million people (myself included)- just tap into it. I know they have Organizing America but I don't know how effective they have been in organizing anything.

We need a progressive leader to step up and lead the movement. It doesn't have to be someone in the administration, just as long it is somebody. I have never understood why Democrats are so passive, but you have a new generation that is ready to fight for what we believe in.

Hathor said...

Grinder, white folks were in a coalition with Jesse Jackson, before the party realized that Jackson could actually get enough delegates to win the nomination. Then they found the "brother".

White folks were in coalitions when Black folk were certainly more angry at White supremacy in the guise of Bull Conner.

Childsplay said...

Thank you for your comment. Wanting also the same utopia that you are and knowing as you that it is not possible. I will very much look forward to your post spelling out your A-merry-ca...I think you might find that it closely resembles the America I want also...Good night and thanks for the challenge to my thoughts...and your humor is refreshing!

Unknown said...

I seldom comment but I have to on this particular post. I don't know how much black America wants the president to do for them. I am a black American and for me, Barack opened many, many doors for us and all we have to do is to walk through but when we get inside we have to make our way and this is where the problem lies with black people. If they can only make their own way life will be a beautiful thing.

Bob said...

You mean all those high school & college kids screaming at Barack like he was their favorite American Idol finalist? The ones who charged small campaign donations to their credit cards 'cause it was the cool thing to do? That Progressive Movement?

Doug said...

As a proud leftist, I have two questions. 1) When was the last time any politican or governemt asked us to sacrifice anything to the greater good of society that more than 15 people would actually do if it doesn't take up their free time? 2) What is with left? The right can take any leader you throw at them or any crazy idea and start rallying other crazy idiots to send teabags to congressmen or protest fake facts. Why does the left need someone to tell them to rally for what they want or demand congress does what they want?

All the bills that either died or limped out of the Senate this year are the fault of the left. Politicans never do anything unless someone is screaming at them to do something. The right went crazy and got everything either watered down or not done at all, while the left just sat this past year waiting for a invitation to act.

LACoincidental said...

Doug Said:
"As a proud leftist, I have two questions. 1) When was the last time any politican or governemt asked us to sacrifice anything to the greater good of society that more than 15 people would actually do if it doesn't take up their free time? 2) What is with left? The right can take any leader you throw at them or any crazy idea and start rallying other crazy idiots to send teabags to congressmen or protest fake facts. Why does the left need someone to tell them to rally for what they want or demand congress does what they want?

All the bills that either died or limped out of the Senate this year are the fault of the left. Politicans never do anything unless someone is screaming at them to do something. The right went crazy and got everything either watered down or not done at all, while the left just sat this past year waiting for a invitation to act."


Doug, wow you read my mind. I've been saying for so long my fingers are numb. The Left has been all but dead since the 70's. Whether its local, state or federal, the left has been wondering the the political wilderness for decades.

The tea baggers were able to derail healthcare reform because no politician worth is Brook Brothers suit is going to challenge a legion of crazed white guys screaming about 'Death Panels' and carrying .9 mm.


The left? We're pissed with Obama, sure. But we primarily whine on our blogs and watch Jon Stewart, Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow screeching on TV every night (ok, Maddow doesn't screech).

If I were a congressman had to suck an angry mob with guns or 10 peyote smoking hippies who can't be bother to even to show up to the town hall, I'll take the Tea Baggers. Its simple math -- these nuts are lot more motivated and represent folks at the polls.

Clinton and Obama were blips because the 'Left' trains for sprints, the 'Right' are in for the marathon.

I read an articles a few days on Black Agenda Report here, The author is right that there is no real progressive Black agenda anymore.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps the right is stronger because it is more homogenous? The left is ridden by conflict rooted in its extreme heterogeneity? Feminists squabbling with men; Whites fighting with blacks; gays fighting 'hetero normative" concepts; Latinos fighting to be accepted as citizens; socialists fighting Marxists. All these different factions have proven pretty incapable of uniting to form a real movement.

alnc said...

Field I have reading your blog for sometime and with this one comment I have to sadly agree 100% with you on Obama.

It makes me sad that find out that Obama is just like Tiger Woods.....dudes we never really knew and are finding out who they really are. Rahm Emmanuel has stolen the soul of Oman and the other gouls around him have sucked his blood.

This dude is not the guy we voted for. To find that we are still in the clutches of the evil corporate types and that, that HCR bill sucks and the Marginalizational leader Obama shows is totally mind blowing.

Wow!!!!

Anonymous said...

"No money. No wants. No poverty.No crime. No decease. And a corrupt free state."

Hear! Hear! Hear what this wise man has to say!




"I am not against this brutha. I think mostly for my students, they are trying to understand my position: if I am against U. S. Imperialism then I am against U.S. Imperialism: no matter the color of the face of U.S. Imperialism."

Hear! Hear! I second this wise man's words!

Mack Lyons said...

O man can't effect genuine change without getting his figurative nuts handed to him on a platter by any number of entrenched interests. I figured the health care bill was going to be transmuted into a relatively harmless pile of junk that preserves the status quo for HMOs, insurers and pharmacutical interests. The man couldn't just start arbitrarily laying down the law without a merciless backlash, so he's taking the high, concillatory road. That ain't going so well since the conservatives and even fellow Dems are taking his kindness for weakness.

I see a worse case scenario coming hard and fast for 2010. If the GOP can keep up having the O man locked up in a state of perceived inaction, supporters are gonna take an apathetic stance and stay home rather than go to the polls for a man who they think hasn't done anything worthwhile for them. This leaves the teabaggers home free to use whatever grassroots bullshit they can to flood Congress with a new wave of conservatives. After 2010, don't expect anything worthwhile to get done, at least not anything that would truly benefit America.

And if you're wondering why there hasn't been a good movement that genuinely unifies people in ages.....well, people usually don't band together unless it becomes a "life or death" affair. Something about brushing up against death that gets people to come together so they can get away from that, I guess.

"Poor white people in this country have been indoctrinated into thinking that they have their skin color, so no matter how poor and powerless they are, they will always be better than the black guy or the immigrant sitting next to him."

And these people have no idea they're being played by the "conserva-corporatists". No fucking idea.

AnnaOutWest said...

"Maybe, Mr. Meyerson, the" left" isn't pressuring Congress, because they don't think it will do them any good."

Do you even know what organizations have been active? Are you even aware that Organizing for America --the O-man's organizers -- shutdown the capitol switchboard with over 300,000 calls to Congress in one day in October for health care reform (http://www.truthout.org/10210910). By the time the Senate voted, OFA had organized more than 1 million phone calls to Congress. And they (me too) are still calling. While teabaggers were shouting at townhall meetings during the August break, OFA sent 65,000 members with signed petitions representing millions of voters to congressional offices in the states to lobby for health care reform. OFA volunteers organized over 25,000 events in 50 states and every congressional district to support health care legislation. More than 2.5 million people have participated in OFA lobbying efforts.

Other than labor unions, who else is organizing these kinds of numbers on this issue? I do not expect the mainstream media to report this work, but so called progressives should have some awareness of what's going on in their political neighborhood.

The President is not a magic Negro, Field. He can't wave a wand and change the political power structure overnight. Congress still writes legislation in this country. And until you find me the lever that moves a Lieberman or a Landreu, this progressive Valhalla everyone is looking for is not coming tomorrow. Our ancestors fought for hundreds of years to make the lives you and I live possible. So cut the O-man, and those of us who support him and work with OFA, some slack; the change we seek is going to take more than a minute.

Peace.

msladyDeborah said...

Field,
I grew up during the Movement Eras and I have been a "leftist" for the majority of my lifetime.

It seems to me that this time around it is time to think once again about having at it with the established way of doing business.

I do not believe in the Moses Theory. I don't know why people keep falling back on the belief that one individual can step up and lead us all out of our misery. It is just not going to happen.

It is time to really get busy. If we are all truly mad as hell and plan not to take it anymore, then it is time to get busy organizing and start to push our collective good agenda.

btw, don't illusion yourself about the movement era, there is nothing new up under the sun. There was a lot of friction and disappointments with leaders in those movements too. This just seems to be the nature of the beast. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't get busy. It should be a lot easier now because we have the benefit of technology to assist in the effort.

Jody said...

There has been and continues to be a progressive movement in the US.... The title of your blog is "Searching for a Movement." Well, here they are: http://www.ussf2010.org/

The folks (mostly folks of color from across various movements) organizing this contradict the notion that we are not trying to work together. The US Social Forum has activists of communities from Indigenous, urban, labor, education, poverty, environment, etc.... Stop looking for our movement in the mainstream media. It is only occasionally there.

The progressive left is alive and active... you just have to get off your computer, turn off your tv, and join us! In Philly, on MLK day, we will be marching:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?v=app_2344061033&ref=profile&id=581026983#/event.php?eid=234048089804&index=1

Again, note the coalition across race and class. Another World is Possible!

Anonymous said...

Echoing AnnaOutWest and msladydeborah, I link to Al Giordano, who appears to know much more about these things than I, and who disagrees with Field (in his blog, aptly called The Field).

field negro said...

Jody and AnnaOutWest, I hear you. And thanks for the 411 on your organizations. (Jody, I promise I will be out there with you on MLK Day. I have some volunteer stuff to do throughout the day, but I will try to make it to the rally.)Jody, I know you walk the walk big time, and that's why I love you. AnnaOutWest, we can't promote you if your organization doesn't send us anything. If you want bloggers like myself to let people know about phoneoffs to congress etc. you have to let us know when it's going down. [My e-mail address is fnblg@yahoo.com]

"I see a worse case scenario coming hard and fast for 2010. If the GOP can keep up having the O man locked up in a state of perceived inaction, supporters are gonna take an apathetic stance and stay home rather than go to the polls for a man who they think hasn't done anything worthwhile for them. This leaves the teabaggers home free to use whatever grassroots bullshit they can to flood Congress with a new wave of conservatives. After 2010, don't expect anything worthwhile to get done, at least not anything that would truly benefit America."

Maxk Lyons, I am afraid you might be right.

Still, we can't let that happen. Folks at the grass roots level will have to go and lierally pull people out to the polls if they have to.

Comments like the one from Anon. 11:59 pm, is encouraging.

La-Coinciental, thanks for the inspiration for this post.

J, I understand your point of view as well. And for a long time I probably thought more like you than others. But, unfrotunately, I am not the most patient person in the world.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]My problem is that I was born about 50 years too late. And if you consider yourself a progressive like moi,-not a dumbocrat- you probably feel the same way. The A-merry-ca we live in today will never be the A-merry-ca we hoped that it would be.[/quote]

Filled-Negro:

Why is it that when I appraise you and other Progressive-Fundamentalists in a way that you later confirm in your own words - that my appraisal is not confirmed at the time that I state them?

Think about it, Filled Negro - you say you were born 50 years too late. You missed THE STRUGGLE.

As a progressive (as I have constantly noted) you are used to STRUGGLING AGAINST a certain external antagonist upon which you can rally the troops.

I also ding you all for having few ORGANIC motivations.

Filled Negro you are now staring the limits of your ideology right in the face.

Yous see - just as I told Fine Frog a few weeks ago - the REVOLUTIONARY must eventually become the CONSERVATOR. After having cleared out his ideological enemy from the land, he is now the PREVAILING POWER. As the ESTABLISHMENT the old PROGRESSIVE must not field an order that can:

* Educate the masses
* Enforce the rules of Law & Order
* Employ the people and satisfy their consumer needs
* Provide a Cultural and Medical establishment that are in line with their health outcomes

Filled Negro - the progressive movement in America stands at the edge of the continent, facing westward and looking at the PACIFIC OCEAN!!!! Your EXPANSION WESTWARD to give the illusion of PROGRESSION has now run its course.

The next interval for your movement is to DOUBLE BACK, returning into the land that you have "WON" and begin to implement HUMAN RESOURCE MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS by which your loyal followers who you promised to SERVICE can now be engaged as the primary agents of their own salvation.

Just as the White Racist needed to be put into check so that any attacks upon a Black person was punishable by law.......today those Blacks who are infected with "Non-White White Supremacy" and thus have been EXPLOITED by the forces of RACISM CHASING must now be reengaged. Filled-Negro instead of USING the Negro for your own ideological and political agenda you must now figure out a way that his own PERMANENT INTERESTS can be delivered BUT THIS TIME you can no longer hide behind the curtain, rattling chains and making sounds of a ghost by which you control him by fear.

You must rise to the challenge and engage him as an EQUAL HUMAN BEING - Filled Negro. Tell him that he is WORTHY of living the standard of living that he desires. He must commit himself to the SYSTEM by which this will be delivered to him and his people.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]And you wonder why a lot of whites won't team up with blacks? Frankly, most whites are afraid to even try. They're afraid they'll say something wrong. No shit.[/quote]

Grinder:

This is not the case with ME.

In my job - I realize that I must PRODUCE or get sent away. There are hundreds of other people in the evil corporation waiting to take my place.

My self consciousness and self-worth IS NOT validated by a WHITE PERSON nor can one take it away from me.

The hypersensitivity that you speak of is merely the consequence of an individual who has been ALLOWED to project his own personal insecurities upon his RACE. The fact that he has other "affirming Blacks" who gather together and share their own "Yeah a White person was mean to me because of my race also" stories.

I am stunned when I listen to a solid performing sales person who is Black tell about how a SECRETARY that does his paperwork was mean to him and thus she is a RACIST!!!! Sometimes people are just azzholes and other White people could tell of the same stories.

Grinder - EQUALITY is a two way street. Far too many Blacks can articulate the "equal treatment" they demand from society (or the White team mate that you speak of).

Fewer people talk about the OUTWARD projection INTO society that the Black person must emanate in order to make EQUALITY a round trip transaction.

Then if you are 'too strong' of a Black man that runs awry of the "Prevailing Negro Sentiment" - you might be called out by other Black people who aren't used to a brother making his own observations.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]I do not believe in the Moses Theory. I don't know why people keep falling back on the belief that one individual can step up and lead us all out of our misery. It is just not going to happen.[/quote]

MsLadyDeborah:

The Moses style of management has the "rank and file" yielding their strength and vision to ONE LEADER. As goes the leader so goes the flock. In this model QUESTIONS OF THE LEADERSHIP are not well taken. Such challenges, in their view, THREATEN the entire mission because it might cause distention.

We need a DISTRIBUTED management model where strength is built up at the PERIPHERY. The key problem with this model, MsLadyDeborah, is that it run awry to the prevailing consciousness of the Black Establishment.

When you see the "rank and file" as being IN NEED OF SERVICE and you have the "golden ladle" to feed them soup as they are hungry this speaks to the "superior/inferior" relationship that is established.

A distributed leadership model needs competent people at the edge, running their own affairs. When these people interact with each other the aggregation of their productivity will define a prosperous community, good schools, crime that is managed and healthy outcomes that are driven toward.

At present we don't have the MANAGEMENT INSTITUTIONS within our community by which dEMOCRATIC outcomes can be had. Those policies that have worked in the past are retained and expanded. Those which have failed are jettisoned. EFFECTIVE OUTCOMES take precedence over IDEOLOGICAL BINDINGS.

The Black American leader is little different from the African president: In order for his nation to PROGRESS he is going to have to voluntarily agree to YIELD his present power and instead submit to a more TRANSPARENT order. This new order must allow the people to shift course based on their present bearings while on their way toward the land of their "Permanent Interests".

Instead today these forces can gain MORE POWER, have the institutions failing under their watch and they spin the failure as the fault of SOME OUTSIDER. This gives them more POWER as they keep the people on the external fight for more land to be acquired. As long as they don't look back at the conquered land - they can continue their expansion for the sake of EXPANDING.

field negro said...

"Yous see - just as I told Fine Frog a few weeks ago - the REVOLUTIONARY must eventually become the CONSERVATOR. After having cleared out his ideological enemy from the land, he is now the PREVAILING POWER. As the ESTABLISHMENT the old PROGRESSIVE must not field an order that can:"

WRONG! My "ideological enem[ies]" are still in the "land".

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]Comments like the one from Anon. 11:59 pm, is encouraging.[/quote]

Filled Negro: Is it possible that YOU need to be HELD ACCOUNTABLE rather than you need "Encouraging"?

Sounds like this brother is provoking you to do the same damned thing only HARDER!!!


[quote]
If they want us to March on Washington. We are there. Need proof - just see Jan. 20.[/quote]

Anon - Do you mind if I ask you a few questions?

When PEOPLE OF A FAVORABLE IDEOLOGY RUN THE INSTITUTIONS that are failing you - WHO are your MARCHING AGAINST?

WHO are THEY to "call you" to Washington DC while escaping accountability?


[quote]
In the Op-ed he noted that they had an email list of almost 13 million people (myself included)- just tap into it. I know they have Organizing America but I don't know how effective they have been in organizing anything.
[/quote]

Anon - if we consider Philadelphia and the problems facing the young people there - HOW DO YOU logically explain your willingness to accept the call from the NATIONAL DEMOCRATS lead by Obama while failing to note that the LOCAL MACHINE MEMBERS in Philly run the entire table yet you fail to MARCH against them but instead march ON BEHALF OF their national party mates?

Seriously Anon - WHO are you marching against? Or is MARCHING a cathartic experience for you?

[quote]
We need a progressive leader to step up and lead the movement. It doesn't have to be someone in the administration, just as long it is somebody. I have never understood why Democrats are so passive, but you have a new generation that is ready to fight for what we believe in.
[/quote]

In my debate with Progressive-Fundamentalists I am seeing a trend.
DESPITE YOU ALL'S WILLINGNESS TO VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATS - you afford yourself PLAUSIBLE DENIAL about the results that are had. You merely say "Yes they are DEMOCRATS but they are NOT PROGRESSIVE" and thus the outcomes are not OF OUR OWN (they are not PROGRESSIVE outcomes).

SORRY I AM NOT BUYING IT.

When I see you all REPUDIATE the non- Progressive DEMOCRATIC ESTABLISHMENT as you do the CONSERVATIVE establishment THEN you can claim not to KNOW THE DEMOCRAT Savior when he comes calling upon you.

This merely proves that in your own soul - you have no conviction.

(I struggle to see why you all don't see the INORGANIC foundation in your Progressive Movement. You are an OPPOSITION movement at heart. The WORST possible scenario for you all is when you WIN and thus have your entire terrain defined by your own ideology. Instead of STRUGGLING AGAINST you are forced to PRODUCE)

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]WRONG! My "ideological enem[ies]" are still in the "land".
[/quote]

I am sorry that you haven't figured out what to do about these ENEMIES who have killed over 250 Philadelphians last year. More than 85% of them being Black.

The question that YOU NEED TO ASK is "What about 2010 will be any different?".

"What ENEMY mitigation efforts" will you put into place in 2010?

buckydent@mailinator.com said...

Poor white people in this country have been indoctrinated into thinking that they have their skin color, so no matter how poor and powerless they are, they will always be better than the black guy or the immigrant sitting next to him

I'm a native-born American. I'm white. I've been poor. And I haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. Are you projecting?

field negro said...

"I'm a native-born American. I'm white. I've been poor. And I haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. Are you projecting?"

Buckydent, I am not poor [never been] and, I can assure you, I am not white. So no, no projecting here. ;)

The fact that you have no idea what I am talking about is a good thing.

Five Stars for Bucky!

field negro said...

"I am sorry that you haven't figured out what to do about these ENEMIES who have killed over 250 Philadelphians last year. More than 85% of them being Black.

The question that YOU NEED TO ASK is "What about 2010 will be any different?".

If my ideological enemies are still in power, not much.

And these "enemies" contribute more to these deaths than you can imagine. Big picture [un]constructive one, big picture.

Ernesto said...

field, you have missed the real obvious reason why nothing good gets done lately. The editorial you linked mentioned the root of the problem, but only in passing:

"the ever-larger role of money in politics"

This is the ONLY thing standing in the way. This is the 800 pound gorilla. Go to the DNC or RNC web pages. The first thing they cite about a candidate's chances to win or retain office is how much money they have raised! Poll results aren't even more important than that dollar amount.

Just look at what happened to health care. The big money that owns both parties in the Senate is what killed health care reform. In a more just and humane world, Max Baucus should be in jail on conflict of interest charges. And his cell mate should be Joe Lieberman. Neither are Republicans in name, but in actions...oh yes. Thanks to our corrupt pay for play system.

As I said in the last thread...any candidate that comes to us promising "change we can believe in" is a fraud unless the central part of their platform is getting special interest money out of the campaign process. THAT is where any mass movement must be directed first and foremost.

Anonymous said...

Your post misses the mark on at least two levels.

First, presidents don't lead movements. The people do. It was a movement that elected Obama along with a well oiled campaign machine.

Second, which "left" are you talking about? The left that supported O for his promise to pull troops out of Iraq and move them to Afghanistan or the left that feels betrayed because he didn't pull troops out of both countries. The left that is betrayed because don't ask don't tell is still in effect and gay marriage isn't the law of the land. The left that is relieved a foot is in the door for a national health program or the left that is pouting about no public option. The left that thinks guantanamo should be closed already or the left that is relieved to see he is moving in that direction recognizing how conplicated the issue is.

The left wants everything just the way they want it without compromise and they want it yesterday. O is going to lose in 2012, not b ecause of the right but because of the left. We are back in 2000 with the fringe left loonies swearing there is no difference between Gore and Bush. I hope you enjoy president palin.

PPR_Scribe said...

Barack Obama laid out perfectly, *in writing* exactly what kind of President he'd be. And there was nothing in there that anyone should have interpreted as "radical" or "left." Or, for that matter, of his being vastly different from the "average politician."

And lamenting the lack of more progressive mobilization ignores the psychology of people in social movements. People need something symbolic to mobilize against, they need to latch onto emotionally, and they need a clear (to them) difference between "them" and what they are fighting against. Mobilizing to further a movement that is already (perceived to be) on a certain path is a lot harder than mobilizing to change a movement's direction.

But the other fault with "progressive" mobilization lies in our very diversity: Conservative movements will by definition have the potential to be more cohesive than progressive ones because they exclude much more.

For example, an educational movement that aims to return to the "Three Rs" will likely be more focused than a progressive one that aims to include more women. And perspectives that are more welcoming than GLBT families. And language diversity. And social justice and volunteerism. And...and...and...

Anonymous said...

Again, note the coalition across race and class. Another World is Possible!

Jody,

If that is the case, then why is http://www.ussf2010.org/ mostly people of color?

Ernesto said...

Oops, I missed it. I'm sorry. Next time I will read more carefully!You did mention it:

"Those people represent lobbyist and their corporate benefactors. No one else."

"Maybe, Mr. Meyerson, the" left" isn't pressuring Congress, because they don't think it will do them any good."

You NAILED it.

One addendum: I called, sent faxes, and wrote letters. A lot of people did, but we saw exactly what happened AGAIN. It's disgusting!!

Anonymous said...

But the other fault with "progressive" mobilization lies in our very diversity: Conservative movements will by definition have the potential to be more cohesive than progressive ones because they exclude much more.


Boom!

You hit the nail right on the head. The conservatives have largely managed to tamp down the worst of their differences. The progressives have not figured out how to do that. Why do you think liberalism triumphed in Roosevelt's time? it was a far more united and far less diverse movement.

Anonymous said...

President Palin, huh? I do not believe that 51% of the electorate is that stupid.

I do not know about you, but I want a president that is above average.

Anonymous said...

The left wants everything just the way they want it without compromise and they want it yesterday. O is going to lose in 2012, not b ecause of the right but because of the left. We are back in 2000 with the fringe left loonies swearing there is no difference between Gore and Bush. I hope you enjoy president palin.


When Bush was elected president the far right largely got what it wanted without compromise. So, what's your point?

Anonymous said...

"You hit the nail right on the head. The conservatives have largely managed to tamp down the worst of their differences. The progressives have not figured out how to do that. Why do you think liberalism triumphed in Roosevelt's time? it was a far more united and far less diverse movement."

But was not the lack of diversity a factor, cited by the GOP, which led to its downfall in 2006 and 2008?

Isn't that why the RNC chair wants to take the party in another direction (you know, the whole hip-hop pandering idea.)?

Jody said...

Anon 11:31.... note I said ORGANIZING the Forum... this does not exclude participation by any and all folks that want to engage. And, it is about time that we white folks participate in progressive organizing without having to be the ones taking the lead in doing the organizing and then asking folks to join us. The result leaves us standing around scratching our heads wondering why there are no people of color in the room. This effort moves us all beyond those failures. I want to be a part of whatever it takes to get us together.

Anonymous said...

I want to be a part of whatever it takes to get us together.


Well what exactly does it take? That seems to be the big question.

Anonymous said...

But was not the lack of diversity a factor, cited by the GOP, which led to its downfall in 2006 and 2008?


I don't think lack of diversity was it at all. The 2004 Republican coalition wasn't diverse at all. I think what really happened was evangelicals started to jump ship after too many promises to them were not kept. However, now that Obama-a "muslim" black man-has taken office, it seems that they are firmly back on the plantation, so to speak.

field negro said...

OK, great points about the different movements within the left and the lack of a cohesive coalition. The right doesn't seem to have that problem. They all look the same and come from pretty much the same backgrounds.

Ernesto, I agree with you,the influence of money is a huge problem in politics.

PPR_Scribe, I hope you don't think we are advocating that Barack goes all "Mau Mau" on us. But still, he could distance himself a bit more from the lobbyist and the special interest folks from Wall Street, etc. I am sure that at some point in his presidency he will stop treating the left like "red headed step children". I just hope, for his sake, it won't be too late.

"And lamenting the lack of more progressive mobilization ignores the psychology of people in social movements. People need something symbolic to mobilize against, they need to latch onto emotionally, and they need a clear (to them) difference between "them" and what they are fighting against. Mobilizing to further a movement that is already (perceived to be) on a certain path is a lot harder than mobilizing to change a movement's direction."


Well if the powers that be who keep stepping on our collective asses isn't enough to get people fired up enough to mobilize, I don't know what will.

Jazzy said...

America has become a nation of Wimps and Wussies period! It's hard for me to fathom the children and grandchildren of the 60's activist are now sheep! Is it something in the water?LOL

Constructive Feedback said...

Ernesto - your line of thinking is quite disturbing. What planet are you from?

[quote]This is the ONLY thing standing in the way. This is the 800 pound gorilla. Go to the DNC or RNC web pages. The first thing they cite about a candidate's chances to win or retain office is how much money they have raised! Poll results aren't even more important than that dollar amount.

Ernesto when CANDIDATE OBAMA was raising RECORD AMOUNT OF MONEY both from the traditional CORPORATIONS and from INDIVIDUALS who "bought into the dream" DID YOU REGISTER A PROTEST WHEN IT COUNTED?

Did YOU attack Candidate Obama when he turned away the Progressive tenant of PUBLICLY FINANCED CAMPAIGNS because HE HAD THE ADVANTAGE and was not about to unload his "weapons" preemptively?

THIS IS WHEN IT COUNTS MAN!!
This is where you prove your Ideological Character.
Instead you were SILENT!!!!

[quote]
Just look at what happened to health care
[/quote]

LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED TO HEALTH CARE!!!

$90 billion MORE spent on Health Care
30 Million MORE people covered

$52 billion of this new money comes from TAXES ON THE RICH!!!

YOU are angry that the GOVERNMENT didn't become an INSURANCE PROVIDER in an expanded manner.

IT WAS NOT YOUR MONEY!!!!.....that made the difference in WHO is going to get more health care!!!

WHY DO YOU CARE beyond BEING SERVICED?????
If the $52 BILLION in extra taxes collected end up in CORPORATE VAULTS for "services rendered" WHAT DOES IT MATTER TO YOU?

YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED all without INCREASING YOUR PRODUCTIVE VALUE into the system.
You did not add one more PHYSICIAN from "underserved communities" to the mix.

YOU GOT SERVICED.

finefroghair said...

field no poem today great post awesome comments you want to get a movement going in this country lets reinstate the draft make everyone have a vested interest in this foolish war on terror. That will stir the pot. I am rooting for your Eagles big time never liked the Cowboys and I never will.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]The left that is relieved a foot is in the door for a national health program or the left that is pouting about no public option[/quote]

Anon:

What about THE LEFT that now controls the PUBLIC SCHOOLS in these same communities that have high rates of UNINSURED INDIVIDUALS.

WHAT HAVE THEY DONE WITH THESE VITAL INSTITUTIONS NOW THAT THEY CONTROL THEM?

* Are the GRADUATION rates IMPROVED?
* Are more of these students entering COLLEGE as "Pre-Med" students?
* Are there any MICRO-LENDING movements that apply "Social Justice" in a small scale, providing FINANCING to students who will one day be the PROFESSIONAL SERVICE AGENTS in these "underserved communities"?


Do you see the key problem with Progressive-Fundamentalism? You all are in for the PERPETUAL CHASE.

When it comes to leveraging the institutions that you have control over for the DELIVERY of benefits that you struggle for - we see that you are far more qualified to STRUGGLE than you are to MANAGE these institutions so that the PEOPLE THEMSELVES are the primary delivery agent for that which they desire.

You want to believe that you are today being SUPPRESSED by scheming forces of capitalism and corporation. The truth is that when you are left ALL ALONE, BY YOURSELF where your BETTER IDEAS are needed to fill the void at the local level that you now control - you LOOK OUTWARD, seeking out the NEXT STRUGGLE that you can engage in.

SERIOUSLY - Why did you all take over the schools via your political activism when ultimately THEY ARE NOT BEING UTILIZED to deliver your "social justice" organically?

grinder said...

The other thing to do is pick out three main priorities that a broad group of people can rally around, and put everything else on hold. Not that you don't work on other things, but rather you don't stick them in the headlines.

That is especially hard with the left, which tends to be a syndicalist coalition of subgroups with very specific agendas.

On this score, I actually give Team Obama some credit. He has focused on three things: the economic emergency, the wars, and health care. My problem with him really boils down to one or two major problems.

First, they have been passive. When the Republicans decided early on that there was no downside to playing a stonewall game, Team Obama should have gone after them with claws out. Should have called them every name in the book, Truman-style.

The alternative has been to sit there and let themselves be bullied and decimated. I have less than zero symmpathy for people who (in the political arena, anyway) let themselves be treated this way. I will never understand it. For all of my adult life, the Democrats have been on the defensive.

Don't they believe in themselves? If they don't, then they should get the fuck out, because I think there are plenty of Democrats who DO believe in themselves and what they stand for.

Second, they've been content with half-measures. Look, the public was screaming for "change" when it elected Obama. The teabaggers are a minority; the majority wanted the health care system ripped up by the roots; they wanted OUT of the wars; and they wanted to see the thieves who engineered the depression go to jail.

What has Team Obama done in response? They've served up a dish called "More of the Same Old Shit." That's their fault, not the Republicans' fault.

When Team Obama gets its collective ass kicked this November, and then in 2012, I sure as hell hope they don't file their complaints anywhere but in front of the nearest mirror. These people have let us down. They sold us a false hope, and a list of false promises. Shame on 'em all.

Funny thing about this is that I still very much like Obama, and for the same reasons I originally did: He's smart and steady. But then so was Jimmy Carter, another Democrat I always liked but who turned out to be unsuited for the office he occupied.

tip said...

"enemies" contribute more to these deaths than you can imagin

Can you explain this statement?

Dr. Nuwang said...

grinder:
Funny thing about this is that I still very much like Obama, and for the same reasons I originally did: He's smart and steady. But then so was Jimmy Carter, another Democrat I always liked but who turned out to be unsuited for the office he occupied.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dr. Condi Rice once said that the Jimmy Carter was the reason she went from Dem to Repub.

The Dems have been "weak" for decades now and it's the main reason I changed my party affiliation.

I've said it before, Repubs best handle times of war and financial fragility.

Great post Grinder!

Ernesto said...

"I've said it before, Repubs best handle times of war and financial fragility."

They are good at starting wars and depressions, if that's what you mean. They leave it to other people to clean up their shit.

grinder said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
grinder said...

I've said it before, Repubs best handle times of war and financial fragility.

Bullshit. The Republicans did a horrendous job in both Vietnams, by which I mean the original one and the one we're in now.

(Look at the numbers; we have as many troops in Iraq and Afghanistan as we had in Vietnam at the peak, except that this time around half of them are called "contractors" and are earning 3-4x military wages because the only way to get people there other than drafting them is to bribe them.)

The invasion of Iraq, and the continuing presence in Afghanistan, is a case of the U.S. playing Osama Bin Laden's game. Our response is exactly what he wanted, the idea being to draw us in so we would bankrupt ourselves.

On the financial side, the Republicans tore down the financial regulations that were put in place after the depression of the 1930s, and the result was a period of debt-fed fake prosperity for the masses, growing economic inequality, followed by another depression that we are in right now.

The Democrats have been a group of chickenshits who have allowed all of this to happen without speaking up. They are afraid of their own shadows, and some of them are corrupt. I blame the Democrats because I think they could have prevented it, but don't kid yourself: It's the Republicans who put all this shit in motion.

Ernesto said...

"This is where you prove your Ideological Character.
Instead you were SILENT!!!!"


CF...virtually every time I leave a post here I have my blog linked to my name. Go and read my blog and what I wrote about candidate Obama in 2008. Then get back at me.

Dr. Nuwang said...

grinder said...
Bullshit. The Republicans did a horrendous job in both Vietnams, by which I mean the original one and the one we're in now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So the original Vietnam is the measuring stick for success or failure during times of war?? Now I'm calling you on bullshit!!!!


Lets try to think about this war thing in the modern age, which doesn't include Vietnam as far as I'm concened. Modern war, modern weapons, modern means of fighting war.

I completely disagreeed with Bush's motivation for declaring war in Iraq, but one must conceede that since the US did so, there hasn't been another major attack here since. I live at ground zero, this would be kinda important to me personally.

Perhaps having the Dems in the white house may have prevented the warin Iraq, I guess we'll know. But we do know that in modern times, Dems are generally weak on these type issues.

Doug said...

How is Obama weak? He's fighting without an army. When the Climate Bill came up, the Senate said we can't help you. When the Healthcare debate came the Dems in Congress went on record with what we can't do. When people started demanding the banks return to giving out credit, someone should of asked why are we still trying to buy stuff with credit we don't have or can ever pay back. When the Dems and liberal groups were fighting each other over who's cause should be dealt with first, the right already knew by February how they were gonna get what they wanted.

The only thing problem with Obama is that he thought that just because he was president the Dems would actually try to work with him and the GOP would show him some kind of respect.

The teabaggers may be a minority of the country, but they're on TV and in the papers every week. They have a Faux News group and a discredited Vice President promoting their cause. They got posters with pretty white children and their grandparents that need protecting from that "other" guy that took over the White House.

Ernesto said...

Off topic: Field, Harry Reid is an idiot:

Reid, in private conservations, described Obama as "light-skinned" and with "no Negro dialect."

The sooner this hopelessly corrupt, Joe Lieberman suck-up gets shitcanned the better off for all of us.

Doug said...

Ernesto,

I'm afraid Reid would find a way to make things worse if he were a home everyday.

blackinalabama said...

Great post. I like your replay to Childsplay.
If the past 11 months is any indication of President Obama "change" than we are all in trouble.

blackinalabama said...

correcting myself
Field,
I like your reply to Childsplay

Anonymous said...

"I've said it before, Repubs best handle times of war and financial fragility."

"They are good at starting wars and depressions, if that's what you mean. They leave it to other people to clean up their shit."

Of course that's what she meant. Do not confuse conservatives with inconvenient items such as facts.

BroadSnark said...

Why are people always waiting to be called up? We don't need people to ask us to do something. Each of us is perfectly capable of determining what needs to be done and of building the relationships we need to make it happen.

Perhaps there was a time when millions could get "behind" a charismatic leader (male, of course) and "follow" him to the promised land. But that time is passed.

Like people have said here. Politicians are politicians. Powerful people will always leave us in the dust in the end. That's just the way it is.

We don't need anyone to save us. We can save ourselves.

Field, if you want to see a glimpse of a world with no money, check out some of the projects on alternative currency http://trustcurrency.blogspot.com/2009/12/living-without-money.html

If you want to imagine a world with no wants, check out an urban gardening project that feeds the homeless http://sustainablegrub.wordpress.com/2009/11/08/hope-garden-where-homeless-and-neighbors-grow-together/

If you want to imagine a world without crime, look at some of the restorative justice programs http://thecrimereport.org/2009/04/29/restorative-justice-cuts-recidivism-study/ or check out successful community policing efforts http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14699623

All of which is to say that the answers, the ingenuity, the better world will not come from above. It comes from us. We should keep paying attention to what the powers-that-be do, but we should be building the new world right out from underneath them.

And we should remember that the only reason they have power is through our complicity. If the soldiers and police and bureaucrats and citizens stopped cooperating, it would be over. And many would stop cooperating if they could see a better way.

And I wouldn't totally discount all those working class white people who are getting screwed. I wouldn't assume they can never be allies. I know one or two on the brink of realization.

There is a lot of careful trust building that needs to happen for all of us to start working together instead of in competition. And I think that is where this website comes in - thoughtful, intelligent, creative people who all recognize that we face enormous problems and who come together to discuss them.

There is no reason why thoughtful discussion can't lead to something more tangible. In fact, I think it almost certainly must.

Anonymous said...

Ernesto said...
"Off topic: Field, Harry Reid is an idiot:

Reid, in private conservations, described Obama as "light-skinned" and with "no Negro dialect."

The sooner this hopelessly corrupt, Joe Lieberman suck-up gets shitcanned the better off for all of us."


I am livid after learning about Reid's comments.

Do you believe Reid is the only congressional and/or progressive democrat who harbors those feelings?

Sarge said...

Field, I'm a white guy (actually, more splotchy than "white" kinda pinto, really...caucasian I guess will do), fixed income (VA pension, full disability) just turned 63. Lived for a long time outside of the country, lived for a long time in the south in this country, have spent the nearly thirty years in Pennsylvania. Not officially well educated...

O made me wonder. In my younger days I was told that if a person was invilved in party politics and was running for a national office, had the backing of his "party" he was part of the system, really, and if it is said of such a person that they are "pragmatic", get ready for the hose-a-roo.

When you look at it, it almost seems like this is part of desensitisation. They hit us with what seems to me like a coup, got into everyones face with their torture, suspension of citizenship, defiance of the rule of law, and when it looked like some parts of the populace might just actually do something instead of vote, they back off. It's all still there, we know it, it just isn't being smacked in our faces.

Had reservations about brother Barak. He certainly wasn't Barbara Jordan, or even Lenore Fulani.

White and Black...I have read that during the bonus march on Washington during "The Depression" most of the gov't was very worried about socialists and communists. J. Edgar Hoover had his spies in the marcher's camps. He was shit scared by what they reported. In the southern camps (it was summer, very hot) they were reporting seeing sets of bare feet sticking out of the tents. One set was "negro", the other "caucasian".

Hoover was more afraid of any common cause than any commie thing and did everything he could to cause trouble and bust it up.

They've used that since the late 1600's in the south, keep them at each others throats. Let the white man think his skin and an accident of birth are something of an accomplishment.

And it still works when you try to take everything else away, in some cases.

dandy said...

Field: I just need a xanex b/c the O meister has shown that he has no clothes.

field negro said...

"Do you believe Reid is the only congressional and/or progressive democrat who harbors those feelings?"

Nope!

And I am not in the least surprised by Reid's comments.

BroadSnark, great comments.

Sup Sarge? I haven't heard from you in awhile.

Ernesto, I have read your blog, and you are not a hypocrite when it comes to this subject.

"The teabaggers may be a minority of the country, but they're on TV and in the papers every week. They have a Faux News group and a discredited Vice President promoting their cause. They got posters with pretty white children and their grandparents that need protecting from that "other" guy that took over the White House."

Doug, is it ideology or fear that drives the teabaggers?

ch555x said...

Good points, Sarge and BroadSnark!

Electing Obama was just a start in all of this. It's really up to the citizens who want to see change. Otherwise, we should've just backed a dictator in a massive coup.

Dr. Nuwang said...

Doug said...
The only thing problem with Obama is that he thought that just because he was president the Dems would actually try to work with him and the GOP would show him some kind of respect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And that makes him insanely naive and is one of the many reasons he didn't get my vote. Too green, IMHO.

Besides the fact that the healthcare bill doesn't address the major players in the healthcare mess, Attorneys.

Blinders Off said...

finefroghair,

My husband is a Cowboy fan, but I am with you...

I am rooting for your Eagles big time never liked the Cowboys and I never will.

Chriss Pagani said...

"...the ever-larger role of money in politics..." Yes but does anyone ask why? Sure, right-wing Supreme Court calling corporations people and all that but the fact is that money does not automatically equal votes. I think money controls the process only in a milieu of rampant ignorance.

Last I heard, all of our representatives still had to be voted into office. If people weren't buying their bullshit, it wouldn't matter if the RNC had a billion dollars to throw at an election. It seems like money ONLY controls the outcome of elections when people fail to think for themselves in sufficient numbers.

Anonymous said...

And that makes him insanely naive and is one of the many reasons he didn't get my vote. Too green, IMHO.


Just please don't tell me you voted for Mccain.

Dr. Nuwang said...

Not gonna tell u anything anon 12:52. I refuse to discuss my views with folks with no username after the vile bruhaha that ensued last Dec.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]They are good at starting wars and depressions, if that's what you mean. They leave it to other people to clean up their shit.[/quote]

Ernesto and Grinder:

Why do you all look past "local Democrats" and tag blame on the "National Republicans"? The evil GOP has been displaced in all of the areas where Progressives dominate.

YET as we focus on the fact that we receive the bulk of our CIVIC SERVICES from local governments it is astounding how you have not gotten your farsightedness fixed as you fail to see the local forces that is most damaging to you.

Look at the places with the highest unemployment rates and greatest erosion of economic productivity. You will see PROGRESSIVE ideals in place.

The biggest CRAP that you will be forced to clean up over the next 30 years is the damning effects of ENTITLEMENT SPENDING upon the national budget. This is the largest spending amount. Next will come INTERESTS PAYMENTS ON DEBT followed by the evil Defense Spending that you are most inclined to focus upon.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]Sure, right-wing Supreme Court calling corporations people and all that but the fact is that money does not automatically equal votes. I think money controls the process only in a milieu of rampant ignorance.[/quote]

Pagani - you have seriously MOLESTED the facts about the ruling. It merely said that a corporate entity has a RIGHT to put their messages into the public domain without it being abridged as does an individual have a right.

If YOU had a local company, lets say a restaurant. After spending money on advertising to build up your customer base Ernesto comes along and starts slandering your company because of a conflict that he had with a waiter. From this he goes on every outlet bearing false witness about your food, the cleanliness of your restaurant and other slanderous points.

Question Pagani - should YOUR COMPANY have a right to defend itself against such an attack?

You spent your MONEY building up a BRAND. Now this person with a grievance is threatening to topple your public image per his own agenda.

Serious question to some of you: With CORPORATIONS as your "public enemy #1" why are you surprised that many of them seek to GET AWAY from the areas that your type of consciousness is dominate in the zipcode in which they are settled?

When will the HATERS be forced to create jobs?

Ernesto said...

"The biggest CRAP that you will be forced to clean up over the next 30 years is the damning effects of ENTITLEMENT SPENDING upon the national budget."

Yeah, let's kick all the old people off Social Security, and get rid of Medicaid. Let's just set all the elderly and poor folk adrift on ice floes and let them fend for themselves. They're just a bunch of freeloaders, anyway. There, I'm a Republican now. You happy?

Tell me, what is government for? Is it just to start wars and protect the favored business interests? The preamble to the U.S. Constitution mentions something about "promoting the general welfare". This is something that Republicans such as yourself have somehow translated into "I got mine, fuck you".

How do you watch the U.S. treasury magically come up with trillions to bail out Wall Street and carry on two pointless wars, and then watch them want to nickel and dime us when it comes to health, education and welfare?

Ernesto said...

"With CORPORATIONS as your "public enemy #1" why are you surprised that many of them seek to GET AWAY from the areas that your type of consciousness is dominate in the zipcode in which they are settled?"

You are either delusional or incredibly naive. Corporations exist to make profits, not to create jobs.

Again, I refer you to a book called "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair to see what your laissez-faire capitalist paradise actually looks like from the inside.

? said...

Remember when John MCcain stood up and said that he really didn't understand much about the economy? Now there's a guy you want running the country. Even worse, his economic advisor Phil Graham was one of the biggest proponents of deregulation, which was a key part of the financial disaster that has engulfed this country.

Dr. Nuwang said...

Bailing out companies is one thing. To immediately follow that up with a zillion dollar healthcare bill is simply fiscal irresponsibility.

I seriously doubt a rebublican white house would have done such a thing.

Tort reform and eliminating pre-existing condition exclusions would have been plenty enough healthcare reform for now. Of course that would have required Prez Obama go after his own..........

? said...

Bailing out companies is one thing. To immediately follow that up with a zillion dollar healthcare bill is simply fiscal irresponsibility.


Fiscal irresponsibility is something Republicans are very well acquainted with. While accusing Democrats of taxing and spending, the administration spent huge amounts while cutting taxes! Somehow the Bush tax cuts were supposed to reinvigorate the economy and help businesses hire more workers; however it didn't quite work out that way. Bush ended his term with the worst jobs creation record since Herbert Hoover-not to mention leaving the country with a huge budget deficit.

LACoincidental said...

Ernesto:
Yeah, let's kick all the old people off Social Security, and get rid of Medicaid. Let's just set all the elderly and poor folk adrift on ice floes and let them fend for themselves. They're just a bunch of freeloaders, anyway. There, I'm a Republican now. You happy?

Tell me, what is government for? Is it just to start wars and protect the favored business interests? The preamble to the U.S. Constitution mentions something about "promoting the general welfare". This is something that Republicans such as yourself have somehow translated into "I got mine, fuck you".

How do you watch the U.S. treasury magically come up with trillions to bail out Wall Street and carry on two pointless wars, and then watch them want to nickel and dime us when it comes to health, education and welfare?


Spoken like a true field negro!!! Bailing out Wall Street to stave off economic meltdown while whining about the pennies we would spend on welfare and education isn't fiscally responsible. It is plutocracy -- protecting the interest of the rich and ensuring the virtual serfdom of the poor.

And to my sparring partner CF -- before you hit me with the typical "If America is so bad, why don't you leave?" logic. Same reason I chose to work in my neighbor after college -- too many folks chose that route. They may not physically move, but they retreat into a mental and spiritual cave because change is too hard, too long wrought for our microwave, YouTube culture. I refuse to be one of those people.

Shameless plug, I'm running the LA Marathon to raise funds for AIDS treatment. My donation link is here. I figure raising funds to help AIDS victims who are often without food or housing.

That's my first giving back/change project. Next up, mentoring, a soft spot for for fearless blogger, FN.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]Yeah, let's kick all the old people off Social Security, and get rid of Medicaid. Let's just set all the elderly and poor folk adrift on ice floes and let them fend for themselves. They're just a bunch of freeloaders, anyway. There, I'm a Republican now. You happy?[/quote]

Ernesto:

Let's go to the NEXT STEP upon which you SINK.

* Medicare - insolvent 2020
* US Debt $21,000 billion by 2020
* Social Security insolvent between 2038 and 2042

Can you tell me what other than HOPE is going to afford the people that you speak of to still receive ENTITLEMENT after 2042?

[quote]You are either delusional or incredibly naive. Corporations exist to make profits, not to create jobs. [/quote]

Is this supposed to translate into something logical?

Isn't YOUR MONTHLY FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT GOAL to have a few dollars left over after you pay your light bill and others?

I understand your hatred of PROFITS.
I want to understand your views on DEBT which gives a strong hint that when a group seeks to MAINTAIN A STANDARD OF LIVING that their ECONOMIC PRODUCTIVITY can't support - fiscal collapse will soon follow.

My biggest indictment against PROGRESSIVISM is not on the debate between "military spending vs 'butter'"

Instead the biggest indictment is that you all summarily FAIL to convert people IN NEED into PRODUCTIVE SOULS who are the primary source of sustainment of this LIVING STANDARD that you desire.

You operate in your advocacy because you see UNMET NEEDS.

You draw a collection of SOCIETAL INSTITUTIONS under your ideological control (schools, local hospitals, etc) and even when they don't deliver while under your tutelage it does not rattle your assumptions that YOU know what you are doing.

Instead it show that THE STRUGGLE is your M.O.

grinder said...

Lets try to think about this war thing in the modern age, which doesn't include Vietnam as far as I'm concened. Modern war, modern weapons, modern means of fighting war.

This situation is so much like Vietnam it's eerie. In Iraq, they're following Nixon's "Vietnamization" strategy. It failed back then, and it's going to fail again. When the locals actually control the place, their government will collapse.

In Afghanistan, they're doing "hearts and minds." My God, it's the same shit. The only difference I can see is that this time it costs a whole lot more money because, as I wrote, they have to pay half of the force 3-4x what they pay the military because they know they can't reinstitute the draft without provoking a revolution at home.


I completely disagreeed with Bush's motivation for declaring war in Iraq, but one must conceede that since the US did so, there hasn't been another major attack here since. I live at ground zero, this would be kinda important to me personally.

So what? They went after the WTC in 1993, and when that crew was arrested, tried, and imprisoned, there wasn't another domestic attack until Bush let the guard down.

Clinton's means of dealing with it cost a whole lot less money. The Bush-Obama strategy is just making more enemies.

But we do know that in modern times, Dems are generally weak on these type issues.

I agree in a way. The Democrats' "weakness" is their utter refusal to call bullshit. They are deathly afraid to. They lack the courage of their convictions.

Chicken Hammer said...

The Kool-Aid electorate has no long term vision. They are mostly young, mostly naive, and with no vision of the future beyond the election. They accomplished their mission and now they are waiting their reward.

The conservatives on the other hand have always looked far into the future. They have always known the oBama bliss would pass in time and now they are mobilizing.

Ms. Bunny Easter said...

Val said...

I think I'll be staying home on Election Day in 2012.
11:00 PM

-----
The above post is from the other thread, Mr. Field. But it is a response I’ve heard over and over from the Left. It relates to what you are saying here. For the most part, I concur with your analysis. But to you Val, these are not the words of one who toils in the field. No indeed! It’s the mentality of the House Negro.
Reagan was elected in 1980 with the lowest turnout since 1948. It has been theorized, if African Americans would have voted as they should, Reagan would not have been elected. Perhaps then, the nightmare we have endured for the past 30 years could have been avoided. But Val’s attitude is typical among some Progressives. It makes me question where their loyalties are. After all, voter apathy has been catastrophic for us. It’s how the right-wing prevails. If you’ve noticed, they rewarded us for staying home. They destroyed every institution in America. Our downfall and it continues to this day, is underestimating their treachery.

But now you’re awake! But you’re still confused. Time however, is no longer on our side. For in 2000 and 2004, they went nuclear on us. A coup d'├ętat occurred. Their weaponry was the Republican owned, electronic voting machine. I live in Ohio where it was ground zero. I will never forget what occurred here. The secretary of state that assisted in the coup- was a black man. And yes, he was born when America was still segregated. Kenneth Blackwell, you all know him. He’s been the Lawn Jockey and the House Negro. It was ugly. It was humiliating and demeaning. But most of all, the Sumbitches got away with it!

Con't

Ms. Bunny Easter said...

part 2


But now, it’s all over, right? Obama won! Happy days are here again! We just have to sit back and reap the rewards. That mess Bush & the Republicans created will be gone in less than a year. Yeah, Obama won alright, but the right-wing never left. Why? Because you didn’t make them!
If you thought the so called Mainstream Media was going to respect the new sheriff in town, you were sadly mistaken. After all, this is the same bunch that was complicit in the stolen elections, the illegal wars and the devastation of the economy. They don’t give a damn about you, CAPICE! And when there was a call to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine, not only was there a cry of foul from the Right, our own representatives on the Left said, HELL No! Liberal networks such as Air America were too concern about their own business model. They already had a monopoly on Progressive Radio. So they and a few more on the Left threw the baby out with the bath water. Now the right-wing enjoys about 3,000 radio stations, and the last I heard, we had about 80.

Cable Television is no better. Basically the Left has two allies in corporate media. Rachel Maddow and Keith Obermann are about it. The Right-wing however, has a 24 hour network dedicated to their extreme causes. No other democracy in the world would allow such sick, putrescent bile to occupy their airwaves. But we do! Certainly, no democracy would permit the demented Reverend Moon to set the agenda for the country. But dammit, we do! As a matter of fact, Cspan’s Washington Journal often begins with a narrative from the Moonie Washington Times, never mind the racist rhetoric from their callers. CNN, I detest most of all. It’s old, stogy and dishonest. It appears to be some lighter version of Fox. But we keep paying those Republican cable company owners anyway, don’t we?


Look! I’m saying all of this because I’m still support Obama. Sure, I’m a bit disappointed. But as long as the right wing dominates the narrative in this country, my emphasis will be on defeating them. Because to have them regain full control of this country again, would truly be Armageddon. So I’m not going to play into their hands. I cannot afford it. Neither can my family and friends. Therefore, unless you are willing to march by the millions, risk a job with a nationwide strike, cancel your cable subscriptions, boycott the Super Bowl, or boycott the sponsors of right-wing radio, I’m not with you.

You want Obama to do what you don’t have the courage to do. It won’t happen, Toilers of the Field. Not without you!

Dr. Nuwang said...

grinder said...
Clinton's means of dealing with it cost a whole lot less money. The Bush-Obama strategy is just making more enemies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And just think, if Clinton had been willing to invest a little more, Bin Laden may have been caught when they had an execellent opportunity to get his ass!!!

alicia banks said...

until the poor blacks and poor whites and gays and all of the OTHERS stop allowing ourselves to be divided and stop brawling for crumbs at the bottom of all arenas...the rainbow elitists like obama and his money green ilk will continue to effortlessly dupe the global masses and rule the world...

look at the sheer hell i have taken herein for months only because i spoke these same belated truths about the blackish joker obama???

who will publicly apologize to tavis/cornel/debra dickerson?...


imagine how enraged millions would be if harry was a republican? or if sarah palin spoke his exact same words about obama verbatim?

shame!!!!!!!!

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/the-perils-of-prophecy-obama-unmasked.html

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]Bailing out Wall Street to stave off economic meltdown while whining about the pennies we would spend on welfare and education isn't fiscally responsible.[/quote]

Hey LAC - here is a letter from the Congressional Budget Office for you:

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/78xx/doc7851/03-08-Long-Term%20Spending.pdf

The big 3 entitlement programs account for 47 to 51% of the federal government spending outlays. This is only going to GROW.

Add to this the increasing burden of INTEREST PAYMENTS upon the burgeoning DEBT and we will all soon see that your favorite two targets:

* Defense Spending
* Corporate Bailouts

don't add up as the primary threat that you claim it is.

? said...

And just think, if Clinton had been willing to invest a little more, Bin Laden may have been caught when they had an execellent opportunity to get his ass!!!


What about "Bin Laden determined to strike in US?" What about Bush deciding to let the Northern Alliance do the majority of the ground fighting while Bin Laden and Mullah Omar escaped? What about the iraq War? What about Bush allowing the Taliban to come back and threaten Afghanistan again?

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