Monday, September 29, 2008

That's it, blame it on the Jews.

"I'm disappointed in the vote. ... We've put forth a plan that was big because we've got a big problem." ~The Frat Boy~

Ahhh ya think? Just when we thought we were out of the economic hot water, 40% of dems and *75% of rethugs decided that they were going to pass on bailing out Wall Street. 777 is a nice number if you are playing slots in Atlantic City, but when that's how much points the stock market lost today (the most since it lost 721 points after 911) well, Washington, we have a problem.

So what happened? Rethugs blame it on Nancy Pelosi's speech right before the vote. Apparently it was too partisan for the rethugs, so they decided to give the yes vote a big fuck you. Nice. Whatever happened to voting based on policy and what is best for the country? Nancy Pelosi pissed you off and you decided to change your vote? One clown even blamed it on the Jewish holidays for crying out loud. What the hell is wrong with these people Tell me it was a bad bill, tell me you have a tough campaign coming up, but don't give me it's the Jews fault.

And since we are talking about politricksters being politricksters; It would be nice to see the O man and Mr. Morton get off the damn fence and grow some. Are you for the bailout or not? Somebody is going to be wrong on this, but right now we need to act. I guess the O man doesn't want to end up with egg on his face like Mr. Morton. Leader of his party my ass. He was doing one thing while his peeps was doing another. I wonder if he will suspend campaigning again to go and save Washington ? Do the "fundamentals of the economy" still look sound Mr. Morton? What a joke.

Oh well, you people wanted bi-partisanship? Well, now you have it. It's a big bipartisan no to the boyz with the three thousand dollar suits in Manhattan. For different reasons of course, but the end result will be the same: we are fucked! The Dow is dropping faster than Monica Lewinsky's dress, and if you travel to Europe, your dollar can't even buy you a pack of gum anymore.

The rethugs thought this was Socialism (like that's a bad thing), and the dems had to play populist. (If I hear we have to take care of Main Street and not Wall Street one more time, I swear I will throw away my Lark Voorhies poster). Truth is, I don't like what those thieves on Wall Street did anymore than the next guy. And this is yet another stain on the frat boy's legacy. But right now we need to do something. Maybe it's because I have ties to the market, but this shit is troubdling, and it will start hurting all of us soon if these clowns don't act. Memo to my Reagan rethuglican friends: sometimes you actually do need the government.

I was sitting in my office today, when a friend of mine stuck his head in the door and said: "The chicken's coming home to roost ha field? Now those clowns on Wall Street are getting theirs. Screw them." "Yeah I guess", I said, and I told him that I really didn't "give a damn about them either. But honestly, I didn't mean a word of that shit.

Oh well, not to worry folks, the frat boy will address the nation tomorrow with a big speech. Gee, I feel better already.
*Correction; that should be 65%.


Anonymous said...

how about we divide the $$700 billion up between the taxpayers. we'd each get, oh about $250,000 or so. we could pay off our houses or buy a house, pay off student loans, buy a car, pay off credit cards. all the money would pretty quickly be back in the hands of the banks, citizens would once more feel a part of the country, and all would be saved.


Anonymous said...

What people don't understand is that this is a credit crisis. Wall Street got fucked today, but Wall Street has a bigger dick and they'll fuck back harder every time we try to get credit for a purchase, try to buy or sell a home, and whenever our employers borrow short-term to make payroll.

We're all fucked. Pay attention to the Suze Ormans and Paul Krugmans of the world. They know what's coming.

Anonymous said...


There's always someone to blame except for a Republican.

Sad fact indeed.

Jody said...

I don't know what needs to be done to fix this fucking mess. A part of me wants the whole damn thing to fail... but, I worry that the damage from doing nothing would be far greater than the bailout.

But I do know this. For the future, there must be laws enacted that no corporation/s should be so large and concentrate so much wealth that the economy of the entire country depends on maintaining its/their existence.

The big banks and financial houses need to be broken up and never be allowed to consolidate ever again. And there must be regulation...

Not so Anonymous said...

Congress of all people with their extra and confidential information that regular voters don't have are acting like they just don't freakin' get it. $700 billion now or we'll be owned by and kneeling to China Later. Ridiculous!

EzMun said...

First, I've got to say that I don't believe it's constitutional for the government to buy shares of any private company, under any circumstances. But that's an aside. Second, The conspiracy theorist in me believes that this urgent bailout that needs to be passed yesterday is Bush's final money grab to enrich his Wall Street friends who fear an Obama presidency... that will come with accountability and regulation. But that's just me.

Request to anyone who was on the fence or supported the bill, albeit reluctantly... Name 5 companies who are on the brink of failure or cannot lend money because of this "crisis." .... .... [crickets]

The fact that we haven't heard anyone name any of these companies is the reason this bill failed. The American people don't understand the urgency. Hell, most of the pundits don't understand (or cannot articulate) the need for such urgency to take a $700 Billion chunk from the American people (who I'd add, don't have it to begin with).

So when the dust settles, as an American citizen, I'd like for the government who is asking for that kind of money to level with the people and show us a list of these companies that need the people's money.

I get the claim that the crisis on Wall Street affects everyday folks with the inability to get credit for homes, cars, employers to make payroll, etc. But the fact that the President, his Secretary of the Treasury, Fed. Reserve Chairman, congressional leaders, or any of the mofos advocating for this bailout/payout cannot justify in writing, in a graph, with numbers, the need for this money suggests that the real crisis is the failure of leadership from our favorite Texan.

Personally, I don't support it, and until someone can show me in writing why I should fork over $2,500.00 per member of my household to this misadventure, I'll remain on the sidelines.

The Christian Progressive Liberal said...

Field, we are screwed anyway. Know Why?

Because that $700 billion is just paper that's not guaranteed by silver or gold coin. So if China decides to call in what America owes her, we don't have enough to liquidate to pay it.

That's why Wall Street got screwed, because all they kept doing when they ran out of money was call up Bernanke and Paulson and tell them to print more dollars to drop into the economy; only those dollars are just dollars on paper ONLY - there's no gold or silver to guarantee liquidation should the need arise.

Like right about now.

The people spoke - this bill was nothing more than Corporate Welfare for Wall Street Fat Cats.

The day we got screwed was back in 2001 when Bush decided to take the surplus Clinton left and give out those $300 dollar windfall checks. When Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill told Bush "who's going to pay for this windfall; we shouldn't do it" he was promptly fired by Bush for telling him that if the surplus was used the way it was then, we'd be screwed now.

Funny how people who actually dared to tell the Frat Boy the truth got tossed out on their ass, but are now being proven correct.

field negro said...

"But I do know this. For the future, there must be laws enacted that no corporation/s should be so large and concentrate so much wealth that the economy of the entire country depends on maintaining its/their existence."

Amen jody. And r.j. makes a good point:quite a few of these money managers know what's coming.

"$700 billion now or we'll be owned by and kneeling to China Later. Ridiculous!"

Aretha, they own us now.

field negro said...

"Second, The conspiracy theorist in me believes that this urgent bailout that needs to be passed yesterday is Bush's final money grab to enrich his Wall Street friends who fear an Obama presidency... that will come with accountability and regulation. But that's just me."

ezmun, you are scaring me.

Anonymous said...


That is an interesting way of assessing the situation. People do not understand how interconnected the banking system and how it impact us. If credit continues to tighten, it could have an effect on businesses meeting their daily operations, payroll being one of them. It could also effect getting money from the ATM machines.

Unfortunately, bailout or rescue whichever you choose to use will only slowdown the crisis and it doesn't mean we are out of the woods. We probably will not know if the bailout will have a positive effect three to six months from now. The bailout could be a band-aid to patch a hole in the dam. If Congress put forth a good package, then the government could make money from the deal and the taxpayers may come out ahead. However, they will need to vote on a package because the market could crash and then we are looking at a possible second great depression. I do not think anyone wants to admit that this more than just a market corrected itself, and if we have a depression there will be no correction. Roosevelt didn't stop the depression through his programs, he merely slowed it down and it wasn't until WWII did the U.S. get out to the depression. I don't think WWIII would be would be a good option as that would a short war.

Jibreel Riley said...

1st thing: This nation has too much credit debt. You reading this right now have that brand new Dell your typing on via credit
2nd thing: You can't buy a house if you cant afford it, even if the government is willing to give it to you (fannie/fred).
3rd thing: I dont feel to bad for you if you brought that track home in Malibu, two cars and 40 grand in credit debt and now you want a government bailout. Too bad you cant go the bankruptcy route, Joe Biden close that gap himself (google it).
4th thing: This chit was happening during the S & L scandal mixed in with the bust. Great Depression was a shitty DMX album. Ever since he started acting his carrear has gone down hill.
5th thing: How is this "really" affecting you anyway? Everyone you need to build credit. Like git your score above 620 sucker.

Now guess what everybody is forgetting: The DEMOCRATS CONTROL THE HOUSE!!! You dont need the House Republicans to pass jackshit!!!

Now before I end because my boss is going to wanna ride down to the ghetto to get some ribs for Rosh Hashanah because he is bumbed out from the Dow... really like those same Dems who voted no (because they wanna get reelected too) 9% Nancy was waiting to use this against the House Republicans in there races come Nov 4th. Were is the hell is Obama... wait he said the fundamentals are strong today!!!

Oh and while you are there, please look at this too...

Dont Run away from the ball Field, I know the truth hurts but it will set you free.

Boss man is calling me, i gotta starch my coat tails and gas up the Buick (because real rich white folk dont show off there money).

p.s. The Gas industry still making cash eh

Unknown said...

I wonder if Sarah Palin understands the bailout situation, hmmmmmm.

Anonymous said...

Being a Republican means never having to say it was your fault.

McCain this afternoon pointed the finger in every direction to assign blame then later made a public statement saying this is not the time to be pointing the finger. But then of course it is not John's fault. And it most certainly is not the Republican's fault.

Which leaves Mr. Obama and the Democrats, (those pesky tax and spend Liberals) who are entirely to blame.

I hope the American public, as they see their savings go unceremoniously go down the toilet, remember that it was not Bush, McCain, Phil Graham and the Republican congress who got us into this stinking mess, but those lousy stinking tax and spend Liberals.

EzMun said...


You said "Now guess what everybody is forgetting: The DEMOCRATS CONTROL THE HOUSE!!! You dont need the House Republicans to pass jackshit!!!"

You're right, but I think you forget (just as most Republican seem to have selective amnesia) that this bill was proposed by the sitting REPUBLICAN President, George Bush and his Republican Secretary. So why should the Democrats vote in overwhelming numbers to pass a bill instigated by the Republican President when the damn Republican party doesn't support it?

Are your serious? I think gwpriester was right "Being a Republican means never having to say it was your fault."

Anonymous said...


Are you having a Sarah Palin moment? What in the hell are you talking about? Did you also get a D in economics?

At this point in time, even if you had good credit, you may not even get a loan to buy a house or for a student loan. You are not paying attention, this is just more than just bad mortgage loans. Banks sold the loans, and investment bankers created complex derivatives to sell into the second market. More than 63% of the people who received sub-prime loans qualified for a 30 year-fixed mortgage, but mortgage brokers only received a $2,000 commission for such a loan. However, they can make $25,000 to $75,000 a month in commissions for a sub-prime loan. Of course, there was no regulation and people decided to continue to do as long as they were making money. It's greed.

You cannot blame this situation on the average person who only wanted to purchase a home. That is very convenient, and that is not going to solve the current solution. The Democrats should have developed a backbone, but at this moment, it's the house republicans that want to prolong the process as they want to get re-elected. Now, Jib let me know when your company has a difficult time meeting payroll because their access to credit tightens because banks are not extending it, then you come talk to me. This is too serious for you spout out talking points.

? said...

Aretha, they own us now.

The Chinese realize that the Asian markets will go down if the U.S. market goes, so they have no desire to rock the boat right now.

EzMun said...

Btw, Jibreel, I'm not saying that you're Republican. All I'm saying is that your argument is the exact one being used by the Republicans to justify their party not supporting their President's bill. If you ask me, I think it's a tacky argument.

field negro said...

jibreel, are you in the 700 credit club? If you are,how does it feel to spend your life building your credit, and now you can't get anything because the people who you are trying to get it from, can't get any credit themselves?

EzMun said...

"ezmun, you are scaring me"

I am just noting that the tone of this whole bailout conversation by the Bush administration has the same ring of urgency that they gave Congress and the American people around the time they goaded Congress to give Bush authorization to fight his "War on Terror." Same tone. Same request for the American people forking over hundreds of billions in an instant with very little to support the large request.

Anonymous said...

The Dems could have passed this without a single Republican vote....


Hathor said...

My sentiments exactly.

Ray Bridges said...

My Congressperson, Barbara Lee, voted against this proposal. I celebate her prescience. Just say No to Republican redistribution of the wealth, or as my people say, from us to them.

What I know: Republicans, i.e., the George Bush administration, has reamed the American public every chance they have had these past seven years. Why are they using scare tactics to get into our pockets again? Maybe we should conserve our energy and save the country after the Republicans cause it to crash and burn. Right now we're being asked to save the Bush administration from yet another ignoble crash and burn.

Each person needs to bottom line it for themselves, but I'm willing to bear a little pain to watch Bush crash and burn.

But that's just me.

burpster said...

I've read about this melt-down until my eyes are almost bleeding. :) I still am not sure what the heck would be a smart move: bailout vs no bailout? I'm thinking there is alot of pain to come either way. Alot of good a sparkling credit rating will do when your house has lost 40% of it's value and your 401K has been vapourized.

In my travels I did read that the FED was dumping about $180B/day into this mess behind the scenes.

I'm just damn happy I talked my wife into dumping most all her assets 3 years ago. The move into Canadian dollars maybe her a quick 36% since our dollar is now near par with the green back.

Jackson Brown said...

This feels like the end of the movie _Fight Club_ where all the credit card companies blow up:

"We're not killing anyone, man; we're setting 'em free!"


That's one way to erase everyone's personal debt.

Admiral Komack said...

The Republican Party:
"You hurt my widdle feelings!"

Ray Bridges said...

Damn Jews.

L'shana tova. 5769. A sweet new year to you, to all of us.

Jibreel Riley said...

I'm starting to say the Democrats should change there party symbol from the jackass to a sheep. Just because President Bush says "jump" dont mean the house GOP says "how hi" they have races to win in NOV, Pres Bush will be doing speaking tours while these same House Republicans will be fighting clowns like Betty Frank and Charlie "I dont pay taxes but I write tax law" Rangle. Those two with many others Dems in Congress will never leave there houses seats even in death so we need all the Republicans in Congress we can get.

***quick question: do you think Wall Street is Republican?***

Student Loans are back by the Government however so someone has to get a PT job at CVS cutting back on the weekly drinking binges, booohoooo maybe Cindy McCain would be a little light in the pocket. Please stop repeating the talking points. Really if you was the dumb ass who got a crappy loan, well once again opps. I got a bad car loan once and I learned my lesson, bust my ass to pay that car off in two years instead of five so I did not get hosed and I did not need Santa Obama to come with a government check to make things all better.

You know Obama's economic policy would really wreck everything. Yes becuase its been done before (see: Jimmy Carter) but he will give everyone free money that dont really needs it that you think is s tax break. Its fun to get placed back on the tax rolls to just get a so called tax cut.

Either way, like I said you dont need the House Republicans to pass this so I dont really see the problem... wait no one will admit the fact that if the Democrats give what President Bush what he wants the people will start to see that this 110 congress is full of shit!

Field, honestly I'm in the buy here pay here, SEPTA card, North Philly, State School, hell naw I dont shop at Whole Foods, Miller Light, Section 8 club... talk about voting against my own self interest

Bob said...

No wonder Americans are incredulous. For a start, we don't understand the easy stuff, like who attacked us on 9/11. We wait in vain for a peace plan, an energy plan, a health plan, an environmental plan, an education plan, an infrastructure plan. The guvmint sends us "free money" & tells us to spend it & everything be fine, & it's not. Then in a mere three days they come up with a plan to save whole freakin' economy. That would have to rate as the greatest three day miracle in 2000 years.

Anonymous said...

For those of you with good credit and plenty of available credit, think about this. The banks can reduce the amount of credit you have, so if your current debt becomes a higher percentage of total credit issued, then your precious credit score goes down the shitter because you are now a credit risk.

Sad but true. Suze Orman made that point this evening.

Anonymous said...

I think it's gonna be the economy that saves us from McCain/Palin. It's a hard reality that even Karl Rowe can't spin.

When pissed-off folks are seeing their 401Ks, pension plans and retirement accounts melting like the icebergs, they want grownups in the White House who are going to Take Care Of Business.

All across the country, poor and middle-class Americans are screaming, "Don't mess with my money, dammit!" Greedy CEOs being rewarded with our tax dollars is not a way to win friends and influence people. Even yahoos who only care about Beer, Porn & Football will turn into crazed revolution if those goodies are taken away.

And when it comes to common sense, McCain and Palin are bankrupt. It's an ideology we can't afford anymore.

Anonymous said...

Another great post, thanks for your insight into this mess.

Is it just me or is that link you have labeled as "big bipartisan no" not working. I've tried going to the site but get nothing but a Blogger page???

Makaii on Maui

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

This was nothing more than a political stunt by the McCain and the GOP. But it has backfired,and instead of making McCain look like Captain Save the USA it is showing him to be what he is in reality. McCain is a certified buffoon and he has proven that daily.

I believe that this whole deal was a plot to help McCain politically in the presidential race and just another cheap trick. McCain would eat dung if he thought it would help him win. That old geezer is full of baloney and a no good liar.

The GOP wants to give the Secretary too much power with no oversight, so that Bush and his cronies can finish robbing the American people. I smell a rat similiar to the one in the Keating Five Scandal.

Anonymous said...

If the bailout does not go through all credit will slowly dry up and we will fall into a depression. There will be massive unemployment and most of the population will face very difficult times.

If the bailout goes through the government of the US will collapse under the weight of the added debt. There will be few government programs or spending, except, of course for the military. There will be massive unemployment and most of the population will face very difficult times.

In any case, we’re screwed.

Rent Party said...

I agree with Granny. And Barbara Lee and Dennis Kucinich both voted against it, and I trust their judgment.

Black Diaspora said...

Jibreel Riley said... "You know Obama's economic policy would really wreck everything. Yes becuase its been done before (see: Jimmy Carter) but he will give everyone free money that dont really needs it that you think is s tax break. Its fun to get placed back on the tax rolls to just get a so called tax cut."

Are you fucking kidding me! Obama's not in office! During the current administration, tax cuts have benefited the rich more than the middleclass, and, haven't you noticed--we just socialized the nation's debt, while privatizing profits.

Hey, let everybody in on that green teat!

Are you saying that the shit ain't already "wrecked"?

We don't have to wait for Obama to "wreck" the economy: your fiscally conservative friends, and their greedy minions have already frigged the economy, and by extension the American people.

I guess it's nice to live above the fray, and bask inside a golden bubble.

Anonymous said...

Brother Field....reading these commenters I sense a great amount of fear. Maybe some comments on survival may be needed. Stock up on candles, canned goods and etc. If we are to believe our caretakers.. it might be every man for him/herself. Going thru the shortages in the 70s..I know that a lot of services can be locked down. Living in pampered America now I have gotten comfortable but these crooks have put me in a survival mode. Prepare for the worst...anything less will be gravy. Also if this hoax get played better have something to barter. Why you think all these crooks been buying gold. I dont know what the urban people can barter with.... oh well I'll be waiting.

Brian said...


I am with you 110%. I'm so tired of the bullshit.

First, the White House and Congress failed to sell this plan...and failed to educate the public about what is going on. It's ironic that when it comes to giving no bid contracts to the defense industry, giving money to the oil companies, and selling illegal wars... they always have enough votes in Congress. In fact, Bills in these areas pass overwhelmingly. They pull out all the stops, including using propaganda against their own citizenry. But when it comes to doing something to fix a domestic problem, a problem that could impact all Americans, all of a sudden they can't gather enough votes. Another problem is that we have a largely uninformed electorate.... the same electorate (ironically) who's ignorance Republicans have exploited in order to win elections. These boneheaded voters hear "bailout" and they really have no other good info to base their decision on. The media is partly to blame too... because they are fanning the flames and spreading the misinformation. And now, when faced with a situation where they have to educate the public about complicated legislation.. they are finding it difficult to do so. This is what an ill informed electorate can do to a Country.

Unfortunately this might be a situation where Americans will have to start feeling the pain themselves.... when enough people lose their jobs, lose their retirement savings, when enough banks fail (experts are saying up to 1000 banks could fall...WTH?...and some are asking if the FDIC can even cover it)...when enough lives are wrecked...then perhaps something might get done. But I wonder... how many innocent people will have to be impacted before Congress wakes up? Lives are being I type... furthermore, you can't forget the impact overseas. I am also concerned that by the time they decide to act... it may be too late... because of the cascading effect. Once the dominos start to can easily overwhelm the Federal Reserve...and the Treasury. And the longer they wait... the bigger a financial bailout might have to be. The problem will grow over time... like a wound or disease left untreated.

I believe that when all is said and done...something close to the original Bill will eventually pass. Something tells me that Republicans did this for save face. They are also waiting for the problem to trickle down to Main Street and Your Street... because they know that when that happens... public opinion will swing... I expect this to happen fairly soon...within a week or two. Then they will vote on a modified Bill. But how many innocent people will have to be sacrificed while the Congress goes through this b.s. song and dance routine? I suspect that thousands of people will be negatively impacted one way or another... And if the problem isn't dealt with within the next 5-10 days... we will be looking at a full blown recession and a run on banks might commence. I really think they have a week or less to get something done... after that, ordinary folks will begin to feel the pain (those who aren't already impacted by the poor economy.).

Another danger is that Congress may try to submit a watered down plan that won't solve the problem...and we will be in trouble whether it passes or not. I actually thought the Paulson plan was pretty good...
The $700 billion would actually serve as more of a loan.... not a giveaway, as the media has portrayed it. This is too complicated for a lot of voters... this is where leaders in Congress failed... they failed to explain what they planned to do. They also failed to adaquately explain what could happen to ordinary (innocent) people if a substantial Bill was not passed.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that we are witnessing mega theater by the Republicans (who are waiting for Poll numbers to shift)... But political theater at what cost?

Country First? I don't think so... more like, "I'm worried about keeping my Congressional Seat First"... "I wanna keep my posh job doing nothing in Congress"... "if that means Americans lose THEIR jobs, then so be it".

I can't believe that these selfish $%@$&*%!! actually went on vacation yesterday afternoon... in the middle of a national emergency. WTF!!!!?

Won't meet again until Thursday????? First Republicans create the ideal environment of greed that helped lead to this problem (via deregulation)... then they cut and run from their responsibilities...when all Hell breaks loose, when their economic philosphy (and the nation) goes bankrupt.

And I don't want to get started about Nancy "No Leadership" Pelosi... I've never been a big fan of hers. She's one of the worst Speakers of the House in modern history. She should step aside when the next Congress begins in 09.

Can we dig up Tip O'Neill, Reagan, Ike, F.D. Roosevelt,...can we bring back George Mitchell? Hell, i'll provide the shovels.

You may have disagreed with the policies of these men, but they were Statesmen. And (I have been saying this for about 9 years)... the U.S. is not only suffering from a financial crisis.... it is suffering from a crisis of leadership.. and a shortage of true Statesmen....and Statesmanship.

Look at the government! It has stopped functioning for all practical purposes. The partisanship has stopped government from working...even in an emergency. The U.S. is flirting with failed State status... at least for a short while.

Bush: "We will Show the World what kind of Country America Is"... Yeah... we're showin' em' George!

The World is shaking its collective head at this Country. Pathetic!

Anonymous said...

field....most of your bloggers are to say the least FOS.

they don't know anymore about the econ than i do....what i do know is that like alot of Americans i pay my bills don't take loans i can't pay and only take a vacation when i can pay for it...

i've worked hard to get where i am and until someone can explain to me how this affects me i'm glad they didn't pass it....i'm conserv ...(yea,yea i know)but i stand and appald the dems that went against their own party and that hooch palocie

Thanks for the vent!!!!

sorry been busy with ike:)

Oh, and more importantly is

ZIYENA smok'in or what!!!!

La♥audiobooks said...

The Christian Progressive Liberal said... "Because that $700 billion is just paper that's not guaranteed by silver or gold coin. So if China decides to call in what America owes her, we don't have enough to liquidate to pay it."

A few people in my parts fear America will end up having to give China parts of the US Virgin Islands (the only US owned Caribbean shores) in generations to come. That would be devastating and a humiliating loss for America. China and the Middle East have been trying to get their hands on owning piece of the Caribbean for a long time now. Not because they so love black people (fuck black people, we're not even human to them), but for obvious military and economical reasons. As we all should know China is planning to take over the world, starting with Africa’s wealth to do it.

America is losing wealth and universal prestige as we speak, nothing is impossible. I'm feeling so sad today, reality is kicking in.

Mike Searches said...

Jesus, Field, it's 5:49 am in vancouver, wa right now,(9.30.08) and I'm watching (and wincing) George Bush speak regarding the economy. I feel like the conservative columnist that said "my cringe reflex is exhausted." This shit is wearing me out. BTW, did you see the previews for Bill Maher's Religulous? It should be good.
Also, can you give a running tally of the death toll of citizens at the hand of the government police forces?

Woozie said...


Anonymous said...

Anon 8:24

You have no idea about what is going with the economic problem. This very serious and it's not about bailing out Wall Street fat cats. If the problem is not corrected and liquidity and stability isn't restored to the financial system, then you will have a problem with even getting money out of your checking and savings account, meeting daily operations because you will not have a line of credit to meet your operations costs and meeting payroll will be a problem. In addition, we are looking layouts and unemployment could reach into the double digits. It's not about the fat cats, but individual meeting their day to day needs. It does not matter if you paid in cash because you may not get access to cash if the credit market freezes. People do not realize how the financial system is interconnected in our everyday lives. When you go on vacation, you will still need a credit card to pay for the room even if you pay in cash.

Those Democrats and Republicans who voted against the bill were only thinking about their political futures and whether or not they are going to be re-elected. This problem has been boiling for years from the Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II administration. There is plenty of blame to going around, however, we are beyond the point of blank and a decision needs to be made as to what to do about the liquidity and stability to the financial market. You can get angry, but that is not going to solve the problem that is at hand. So Anon, this does affect your money and my retirement savings.

Anonymous said...


We had those frakin laws! Ever heard of GlassStegal?????


that ain't no conspiracy, that's common fucking sense! And backed up by empirical investimacation! (I know people on the out of the inside, if you catch my drift.)

Anonymous said...

It was a bad plan to begin with, and no amount of lipstick was going to make it better. I have yet to read any credible explanation as to how throwing more money at Wall Street was going to do anything other than postpone the real crisis for a few more months (i.e. after the election). And even if a somewhat reasonable plan had been produced, Bush would have simply attached another unconstitutional "signing statement" to it to nullify the parts that he didn't like. It's bad, but it's not the end of capitalism. It may, however, be the end of "free-market" capitalism, at least for another 2 or 3 generations, until people forget again.

Anonymous said...


I ain't supportin' that bill, but if you want dead banks...

National City
they banned short selling on
General Motors, fucking hell. since when is that financial?????
General Electric too.
Fifth and Third.

It's not that they can't lend money, it's that their fucking insolvent.

The list goes on!

I know a guy who puts bets on which bank will fail each Friday -- and tracks the pizza the feds bring.

Anonymous said...


list the company you work for, about the 'cant get money' if the commercial paper market evaporates today. Fucking hell, every day this week is a disaster, and I have to worry about my frackin paycheck!

Apologies for any kids reading -- AngloSaxon IS my native tongue!

Anonymous said...


some folks are already planning for world war three. big folks. we are already in the beginning stages of the next great depression -- though it will probably be inflationary (shmart guy thinks Roubini is wrong. whatda shmart guy know?) because Americans HATE taxes.

Anonymous said...

classical one,

the Chinese have been preparing to kick the chair out from under the dollar for YEARS. they ain't george fucking bush.


Lay OFF of the peanut farmer! Lay OFF, you dagnumb fool! Volker is Respected, man. Like, he's the best Fed Chairman ever -- and he sunk carter to save our nation. You owe your stones to the man, and me my pinko ass -- and that it ain't red today! (okay. I'm mentioning Communism here. that wasn't clear, was it?)


A happy new year to you as well!
To everyone: I'm sorry. I'm sure I swear too much, and I know that I'm not nearly as non-racist as I'd like to be. I've probably said something here that's gotten on your nerves, and I figure I might as well apologize before the Ol' man upstairs decides to shut that ol' book o' Life. So I'm sorry -- I apologize, and I'm certain that I didn't mean to start most of the hard feelings.

Anonymous said...


When the world is ending, optimists buy guns and cigarettes. ;-)

Personally, I just suggest keeping a month's worth of "non rent" money out of the bank.

Anonymous said...

the angry independent,

The FDIC is already broke. So sorry. Your money will probably still be insured -- Congress ain't batshit yet. It's been broke for a while.

1000 banks might go broke because of credit default swaps. They created trillions of dollars worth of insurance, and parceled it out to each other. Every bank that fails puts pressure on a ton of other banks, and could cause a chain reaction.

You wonder why Paulson looks like he's seen a ghost?

The Paulson plan would not get us any money back. Also would give us no legal oversight, at all. Fucking hell, man can't write worth shit.

There are other options other than the Paulson plan, but they aren't even being talked about. Congress didn't even call Krugman or any noted economist.

We are already in a Recession, angry.

And Tip O'Neal let Carter burn -- for spite alone. NOT a statesman. Give me Clinton and Gingrich over that bastard. Name me one good thing he did.

Anonymous said...

frackin hilarious

Brian said...

I already know we are in a recession Rising...

I've been in one for at least 2 years.

I agree with much of what you mentioned... but I still think this was the best plan out there... And at the end of the day, they will probably vote on something similar to the original plan. Yeah... I've read tidbits about other plans... but they may end up being too watered down to make a difference. There was a need for a bold plan to restore confidence.

And I would take Tip O'Neill any day as House Speaker.

Clinton and Gingrich (Mr. Contract for America)? You have got to be kidding me!!! That's when the partisan bull---- took over Washington. We haven't seen a decent Congress since. Under their watch.... corruption reigned in Washington like never before. Watch the documentary from PBS called "Capitol Crimes". Yes... it's always been partisan... I understand history. But it became poisonous when Gingrich and Clinton were there. ____ both.
Country first? NOPE... It was, let's impeach this guy.... and let me launch a war to distract attention. I hated Bill Clinton then, and I hate him now... although he is a great politician.
But as far as i'm concerned, he can go pound sand.

O'Neill wouldn't sell his Country down the River with no paddle. He was a "take care of business" politician who seemed to be genuinely interested in working with Republicans to get things done.

I didn't state that O'Neill or any of those politicians I listed were Saints.. we know they weren't. But they rose to the occasion and would put their Country before their Party in crucial situations... more often than not. More importantly... they worked together with the other side when they had to.

Today... it's seems to be all about Party, self, and how much money will be donated by a corporation or lobbyist. It's an absolute mess.

Anonymous said...

I would like to think that the bill was just not good enough. Really.

We have had TRICKLE DOWN policies under the Bush Administration. Well, now I would like to see TRICKLE UP policies. Let us not bail out Wall Street by throwing money at them. Let us bail out Wall Street by throwing money at the people losing their homes, starting to lose their homes or who will soon be unable to pay for their homes as they reset.

If they can pay a new balance or just pay their loan at a reasonable rate then the banks that made the loans will be propped up and some of the securities that were issued would be propped up? I am just too ignorant of fiscal policy, unfortunately, but a bailout from the top would, in my opinion, would help far fewer people and people who would need less help.

If you have a fancy lifestyle, you can do a lot of cutting back. If you have a budget that can only be balanced by going hungry or not paying for essential meds there isn't much cutting back you can do. It would be nice to put the money and only as much as necessary in the hands that need it the most.

We have a loan that is closing today on an investment property. Because of the houseing meltdown, home prices are at a point where you can buy one for investment. The loan was like the old loans that we used to get and paid off; 25% down. At least I hope that it is closing today. Who knows?

We have much more credit card debt this minute than we have had in years, but it is all wrapped around asset improvement not something that is just going to go out of style or into the landfill.

We are able to take a long view but stats say that most people are two paychecks from the street...which makes me really feel terrible that we are talking about bailing out the top.

Brian said...

Personally, I just suggest keeping a month's worth of "non rent" money out of the bank.

You were reading my mind on the guns thing, lol. I was thinking the same thing...

And Rent... I have about 4 months worth.

I keep an emergency stash of food and supplies to last about a month (did this after 9/11... that's when I completely lost faith in government to watch out for us). I knew that an economic collapse was probably next...or some sort of failure of the State.

It's a matter of time really.... esp. if dumb ass American voters keep electing these incompetent, ultra-partisan "leaders".

All you can do is try to prepare for the calamities these people bring.

Anonymous said...

Gingrich played by the rules. Bent the rules, yes, but he actually recognized that there were rules.

Clinton was squeaky clean, and mostly because Gingrich was watching.

They made a good team, and did some nice stuff while there -- balanced budget, welfare reform, etc.

Tip knew how to reach across aisles? Got an incident to cite? (it's ancient history for me, mea culpa). I'm still pissed at him for dooming Carter -- Carter had a kind soul.

Give me Johnson and his steel boots (that he was rather fond of slamming into people's shins, if they weren't listening)!

I wouldn't worry so much about rent... Folks got a reason to be lenient about that, in a falling market. And the banks if they ain't functional, they can't ask for mortgage payments.

But the grocery store round here doesn't work on credit -- way out in the boonies maybe that would fly, but not here.

I have fifty pounds of sugar at home from costco. Thanks for reminding me! I gotta go bag it in ziplocs. Got the yeast and flour too. If I hafta switch to bread and water, I'm set! (not to mention the over forty pounds of rice I laid in, before the food riots started).

Only problem is: no car to get me outta the city, in case of pandemic. If somethin' really bad happens, I'm probably dead. And a stupid griftin' geocacher plucked a friend of mine's gun from the park... Who the hell puts a gun in a geocache?? Dude shoulda known that wasn't the right box!

Anonymous said...

Okay, so where did everyone get the idea that we as country don't have to face the consequences of monumentally bad decisions? Let me spell it out: these chicken are a-comin home to roost. All this nonsense amounts to is shooing the chickens away from the coop with a broom. The only thing we can do is try to delay it with the added bonus of sending our dollar the way of Zimbabwe's. These baby boomers have been playing fast and loose with the military and economy and I think they should have to enjoy some of the fruits of their greed and hubris while they're still here. It's going to suck, it's just a matter of when.
If we were to try to thwart our well-deserved fate, at least we could give money to the people at the bottom since everyone cares sooooo (yeah right) about. Let's try trickle-up economics since the trickle down has been about beneficial to the those at the bottom as a cum-shot to the face. I don't like the idea of throwing good money after bad, especially when these theives and jokers were supposed to be smarter than the rest fo us.

Jibreel Riley said...

See: Barny "Betty" Frank committee, they had the votes to win!

Anonymous said...


so, what, man, you can't handle the heat? Then stay the fuck out of MY kitchen! I keep my knives in there, and at least one is well balanced for slashing (makes a horrible chopping knife, fwiw).

I will continue to correct you about Carter's admin and the economy.

You gonna take it, or you gonna talk?

The keyboard don't bite, I promise.

[I'm hopin you're a bit smarter than constructive feedback]

Brian said...

What was that about Gingrich being so bi-partisan? This was posted just today.


Anonymous said...

The Carter administration was a really really long time ago. Too long ago to blame for this. Carter was one of the ones who warned us about our dependency on foreign oil, but everyone just laughed at him and his sweaters and the solar panels on the roof of the White House (which Ronnie Reagan had ripped out).

I like ladycracker's "trickle up" idea. Give every taxpayer $100,000 as another "economic stimulus package." We'll pay off the mortgage, credit cards, car payments, and college tuition, and even have some left to save. Some of it might even get to Wall Street eventually. It would still be cheaper than $1T. (I'm rounding up because we know in our hearts that it's really going to cost more, don't we?)

Anonymous said...

Oops, I knew there was someone else who mentioned the trickle up solution. Apologies kriswms2, for not giving you credit, too.

Anonymous said...

the angry independent,

So they didn't do it independently? hehe. Didn't know that. No love lost between Gingrich and the Kleptocracy, I'm sure.

I can like compromise. I still like the idea of some skeptical conservatives dishin' on the stupider liberal ideas. Problem is: those conservatives live in Obama's camp now, and they're running things ;-) Not Kidding. Actually, that ain't no problem except if you like only Republicans to be conservative. Lincoln-style Midwestern Conservatism Lives! ... In the Democratic Party.

Just a faction, but a pretty powerful one.

Still waiting for some dish on Tip O'Neal. ;-) Something crucial he got through, anything ;-)

Lynne from Brooklyn said...

None of the prior comments mentioned that most Americans were against the bailout. Emails and telephone calls to members of congress prior to the vote were overwhelmingly against the bailout bill. Maybe sometimes our elected officials actually listen to the people.

Anonymous said...


I think most Americans who are against the bailout doesn't know what it means. I think their representatives have done a disservice in not explaining the the bill and if it doesn't passes that the credit market will freeze up, not meeting payrolls, layoffs, and possibly smaller banks in their communities closing. Not to too mention that people who do have good credit will not be able to borrow money, banks will reduce customers' lines of credit and it will lower their credit rating. Anyway you slice this pie, it will have a great impact on individuals no matter what.

EzMun said...

A lot of ya'll have a lot of anectodal talking points about credit markets freezing up and the like, but still no one has been able to define what this bad debt is and who has it and how much of it these people who have it have. It's crazy to think that out of fear we're about to bankrupt the treasury for a problem that the Secretary of the Treasury has failed to define.

The "bill" that was voted down was over 100 pages, and I'd posit that very few have actually read the damn thing... scary in all it's implications. One key clause is that the so-called $700 billion is just a limit to the total money being utilzed at any given time.

The act says that the Secretary is limited to $700 billion outstanding at any one time. The bill give authority of the Secretary (of the Treausry) to
"purchase troubled assets" under the Act with "such authority shall be limited to $250,000,000,000 OUTSTANDING AT ANY ONE TIME." (caps added for emphasis). This is the initial authority.

AT ANY TIME thereafter the President may then transmit a letter to Congress increasing the Secretary's buying authority to $350 billion. Then the President has authority to request the increase to $700 billion if Congress fails to pass a joint resolution limiting that amount of at all.

"Outstanding at any one time" is defined as: "The amount of troubled assets purchased by the Secretary outstanding at any one time shall be determined for purposes of the dollar amount limitations under subsection (a) by
aggregating the purchase prices of all troubled assets HELD."

What all this means in plain English is that the Secretary has virtually unlimited buying authority to buy, sell (even at a loss) and buy again, so long as the total assets held did not exceed $700 billion.

The Secretary could buy assets for $700 billion, sell for $400 billion at a $300 billion loss and they have another $700 billion to play with. There was no limit to the number of times the Secretary could do this. And this $700 billion would have ballooned to probably a multiple of the original authority. Sure the people could have technically made a profit... when pigs flew. IF there was profit to be made, the banks wouldn't need the people's money.

To anyone suggesting that this particular bailout package was a "good deal" you are seriously confused. They would have bankrupted America and that Texan would have been dancing out of office leaving his mess for the next guy.

Anonymous said...

I said I didn't think it was a good bill. Really.

Somewhere it would be nice if bankruptcy judges could renegotiate mortgages for people. They can do other debts, why not the most important/largest debt that most of us have?

I would like them to make a fix at the bottom, so that the "little" people feel the benefit first, as well as in the long run.

Shonda Little said...

Now we just have to keep our assholes puckered up and our fingers crossed that nothing happens to the Chinese economy. After all, we have no way, no fucking way, of paying back our $3 billion a month war debt to them. If they called up our debt, the little value left in our currency would evaporate into the vast nothing that our Clinton budget surplus has.
So, let this be a lesson to the American people who were all chest-pounding gungho about the Iraq war 7 years ago. This is the first time in the history of our nation that we have had tax cuts during wartime. There is a reason for that. If you support a war, then SUPPORT it. That does NOT mean slapping a yellow magnet on your car.
As you said, we are fucked. Credit isn't going to be available for the masses. The middle class is an endangered species. I think we are headed to a Mexico-isque society of super, super wealthy and super, super poor.
Thank you, George Bush, for giving us a new definition of failure.

Anonymous said...


Sen. Shelby received a letter signed by about 100 economists last week urging the Senate banking committee not to accept Paulson's proposal. He referred to it during a press conference on MSNBC. (You can easily google this information).
Several senators wanted to look into other economist's proposals. For some undisclosed reason, this was not done. Probably because Bush and Paulson were insisting that a Their bill had to be passed post haste.
Something this huge cannot be sensibly rushed. Prudence dictates that other options must be considered.

Anonymous said...

Like I've been saying...F#*k them. They will find their way.

They will still not give regular folks any credit love for a while no matter what we "give" them, so fu#k 'em.

And Field, while I was reading the other comments I noticed Caramel colored cutie Aretha.

I might hang out at her blog for a while. I mean you're cool and all but...LOL

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:11P:

The Republicans insisted to have the Paulson Plan revised, and it was. They still rejected bill after the got what they wanted. I read the bill today while commuting home as it is posted on and it does include a provision that would re-evaluate the sub-prime mortgages with either reducing the interest, principal or related items. It's also not a bailout, but a loan as the government sell back the mortgages back to the financial markets. Of course, this may not be a good deal for the banks, but their hands are tied at the moment.

113 Section. Minimization of Long-Term Costs and Maximization of Benefits for Taxpayers. This section allows the Secretary to sell the assets at maturity. The deal can be profitable for the taxpayers. The government will purchase them low and sell them back at a profit. "The Secretary determines that the market is optimal for selling such assets in order to maximize the value for taxpayers".

I would advise people to read the bill and discern for yourself whether it's a good deal or not. However, government will come up with some plan to bring liquidity and stability to the financial markets

EzMun said...


The issue with your analysis is that we're talking about "toxic" mortage-backed securities... loans that were given knowing that many of them would fall into default. At the end of the day, the government will have a very tough time selling any of these securities back to anyone, likely at any price.

If there is anyone who was interested in buying these mortgage securities they would have bought them, and the banks now holding these mortgages would have been able to find a buyer to buy these assets. They haven't, and now intend to find the deep pocket (American people) to stick them with these assets that no one wants to buy and no one can sell.

The reality is that when the government buys these securities (bundled mortgages) the only way that we'll be able to get rid of them is to sell them at an extreme loss. What would make us think that anyone would buy them if they aren't buying them now? And then the Secretary of the Treasury will then take another $700 billion and squander it on assets that should have never been bought in the first place.

The ONLY way that the government makes money on this is 1) if the government buys these assets extremely low and then 2) sells them at a profit. But if no one is buying it doesn't matter how low the price is. And keep in mind that during the holding period, many of these loans will still fall into default.

This bill is a lot of wishfull thinking. The problem with the bill (and the discussion preceding it) is that NO ONE, not even the Secretary of the Treasury, can identify which of these assets the government intends to buy and NO ONE has come up with the methodology that the government will use to select and purchase these toxic mortgages. It's a recipe to pass risk off to the American people with the fake deep pockets.

Something needs to be done ... just not this bill. If George Bush's history is any proof, we need to stop and think this one through and not rush such an expensive decision.

Anonymous said...

@ezmun: cosign

Anonymous said...

Field, RisingTide, and Others:

As I have mentioned on other posts, I do expect things to get worse economically. But I want to add what I consider to be another solid point of view to balance all the fear and loathing I see going on.

This is taken from Dr. Irwun Kellner, a chief economist who writes for MarketWatch. RisingTide, I really hope you read this too, brother. Here it is:

We are nowhere near a depression, so let's stop talking ourselves into one.

Spiro Agnew's words of the Nixon era ring true today. The politicians, pundits and, yes, the press, are nattering nabobs of negativism. For example, in recent weeks, the broadcast and the print media have filed stories replete with scare words. You don't even have to look at the tabloids to see what I mean.

The front page of the New York Times recently described what it called "chaos" in the financial markets.

Not to be outdone, most of the first section of The Wall Street Journal one day last week was devoted to articles describing the "spreading crisis" in our economy.

And both newspapers have run stories using the word "depression" more times than I care to count.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am not saying things aren't serious out there, but another Great Depression? I don't think so.

If you look at the data, you will see more differences than similarities between the 1930s and today:

In the crash of 1929 the Dow Jones industrials plunged 40% in two months; this time around it has taken a year to fall 22%.
The jobless rate jumped to 25% by 1933; it is little more than 6% today.
The gross domestic product shrank by 25% during the early 1930s; it is up over 3% during the past year.
Consumer prices fell by about 30% from 1929 to 1933; and the last time I looked they were still rising.
Home prices dropped more than 30% during the Depression vs. about 16% today.
Some 40% of all mortgages were delinquent by 1934 compared with 4% today.
In the 1930s, more than 9,000 banks failed compared with fewer than 20 over the past couple of years.
Remember also it was policy errors, not the stock market crash, that caused the Great Depression:

Instead of increasing the money supply, the Federal Reserve of that era reduced it by one-third.
Instead of lowering taxes, Herbert Hoover raised them.
And to channel whatever demand was left into U.S.-made goods, the government enacted the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act to keep out foreign products; this only provoked our trading partners to do the same.
Add to this today's automatic stabilizers such as unemployment insurance and Social Security, the FDIC to insure bank deposits and circuit breakers to keep stocks from falling too quickly, and you can see why this is not a depression in any way shape or form.

While I am at it, I would like to take issue with the almost ubiquitous use of the word "bailout" to describe the government's rescue package.

Folks, this is not a bailout of anyone, not Wall Street, not Main Street, and certainly not the so-called "fat cats." It's an infusion of liquidity, designed to unclog the financial markets. In doing so, it will benefit everyone, business and consumers alike.

Also, the $700 billion bandied about will not be immediately handed over to the Treasury secretary; he will simply have a line of credit, similar to what the typical business might have.

Finally, this package may not even cost $700 billion. For that matter, it may wind up costing nothing. It all depends on the price the government pays for these distressed assets and what it winds up selling them for."

Anonymous said...

45 Trillion dollars, ezmun. You wanted to know how much toxic shit we got on the market? that's it. All in Credit Default Swaps. The mortgages were just the trigger. The credit default swaps made people create circular firing squads of DOOM. Seriously. Someone would insure Lehman's bonds, and then pay money to another institution to insure their insurance. And that would get passed around, each one insuring the next, until Lehman would wind up insuring its own bonds. That's how opaque the system is. That's why it's likely that one bank failing could wipe out a thousand banks.

Kellner appears to be unreliable, as I can spot multiple problems that he ought to know about, inside that blurb you posted.

For what it's worth, I've been saying I think Roubini and the depression folks are probably wrong, for the United States.

On the other hand, we could see this go worse than the Great Depression. Paulson and company have been using their cards to postpone the crash. At least Hoover was trying to do something, in his laissez faire way.

The closest parallel to today is Japan's housing crash. That took them twenty years to climb out of. And they had substantially more savings than Americans do, and a better economy in general than we do.

I'm not so negative as you might think, but I'm praying that Obama gets elected -- we need someone with smarts and determination NOW.

Paulson looks like he saw a ghost, and thank god. Something woke him up, and he'll at least do something now.

Anonymous said...

Bush and Co are liars.

EzMun said...

Thanks Risingtide. The whole issue of credit default swaps is interesting, because here you have a product disguised as insurance when it was really these banks literally betting on the likelihood of default for the mortgages that they owned. That's craziness in itself.

EzMun said...


Great info. I'm trying to absorb all that you wrote. Good stuff.


Anonymous said...

history repeats:
many great nations have fallen into bankruptcy or just fallen by spreading their army too thin believing they were so great they could never fall.

banks-deregulated, mixed commercial banks and investment banks. Before there was a separation so deposits would not be used in the investment market.

banks-had 1/3 deposits, 2/3 credit.
Pushed homeowners into subprime loans even though many could qualify for regular loans; mortgage payments went from $1000/mo to $2300/mo (Las Vegas).you can't even rent a house in LV for $2300/mo.

Investors- wanted to "flip that house" didn't care how their actions affected people in the states where they bought houses. For example, Las Vegas my house is owned by a realtor in Ohio. Once the housing boom hit rents went from $500 for a two bedroom apartment to $850. Of course wages did not rise even a little bit.

Businesses- didn't care about investing in amerikkan wealth or how their policies took money directly out of amerikkan workers pockets. Shipped jobs overseas complaining amerikkan workers just wanted too much money an hour. As gas has skyrocketed many companies are bringing their jobs back. For example, one company was sending supplies to South Amerikka, then shipping the product to China to be completed and sent back to Amerikka to be sold.

all of the above thought only on the short term not the long term affects of their policies.

Dick cheney kept stating in the past let the free markets work, they will correct themsleves now he wants taxpayers to fix these markets and we have balked!

People scream about minorities on welfare, they just need to stop having kids they can't support. No one screams about corporate welfare.

PS- to the commentors that assume every voter is dumb and doesn't understand the bailout, stop it, puh-leeze. The dummy is in the White House

Anonymous said...


You are correct on the that Credit Default Swap mess. I honestly do not know how deep it really is. Insurance on investments...hmmm....the cynic in me admires the architects behind that.

I do know that AIG alone wrote 440 Billion in premiums - that is seven times the revenue that State Farm (the largest property/casualty insurer in the U.S.) generates in one year. more thing, RisingTide: I did some research on silver -definitely an undervalued metal. I am adding silver to my little safe at home. Thanks for the advice a few weeks back.

Anonymous said...

Undervalued now. It's been crazy for silver in the past few weeks.

81 cents to the dollar on the investment-grade corp bonds -- because the market broke. That's about 10% under the net asset value.

Yes, life is crazy right now.

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